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update on maria and her family
children of dune - leto 1
Update to yesterday's post regarding the Roma child, Maria, being taken from her parents for being too white for dark people, I guess:

DNA from Roma girl 'Maria' matches that of Bulgarian couple - it's been confirmed that Sashka Ruseva and Atanas Rusev, a Roma couple living in Bulgaria, are Maria's birth parents.

I just want to throw this out, because it's weird when I was clicking around desperately for news that someone sent Maria back to her family--I live for impossible optimism:



This is a picture of World tab on CNN in the US edition and also appears in the international edition. Note the title used for the link.


This is the actual article it linked to. Note the title of the article and perhaps, what it's about. I'll give you a minute, it's my first link here.

It's almost not a lie. At the very end of the article, they mention an entirely separate case against a Greek couple who are on trial for buying a Roma baby, unrelated in any way to this one except Roma and Greek and baby and trafficking...wait, Maria's case has no trafficking or proof of child selling. Weird.

I could be overthinking this. CNN wouldn't deliberately completely mislabel because reasons, would they?

Posted at Dreamwidth: http://seperis.dreamwidth.org/987170.html. | You can reply here or there. | comment count unavailable comments

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Actually, Maria's mother needed money to get the rest of the family to Bulgaria. She sold the baby for 100 euros. Maria's older sister has said she want maria back home.

Except the mother herself said that she was too short of money to afford to keep Maria when she left Greece and intended to get Maria back later, but since then she has had another couple of kids and as a result still cannot afford to raise Maria herself.

So no, she may want her daughter back, but she still cannot financially afford it and was happy with the current situation (I gather she has another six kids). This is the usual reason people give up their kids for adoption, I gather: a lot of mothers whose kids get adopted would, all other things being equal, want their kids back. In an ideal world where they could afford it.

All of the above makes it a private problem, not a criminal one regardless of how one looks at it and the opinion of friends, relatives or bystanders.

Oh and raising a kid takes a lot more than 100 euros, in case anyone is wondering. I have noticed that a lot of people have kids without first checking how much money and effort it takes to raise them, never mind providing them with a decent education.

The publicity resulting from this whole mess would have been better used to help provide education of unregistered people - which is part of the problem with gypsies and has been for centuries: a lot of them are undocumented or outside the social system somehow and thus their chances for an education and a decent job are correspondingly lowered.

Buying and selling children is the bottom line. Stop defending it.

Racism is the bottom line, actually.

Buying and selling children is racism? It is if we ignore it, because they're only children of color.

Yeah, no, you're defending racism against the Roma by using "but children" bullshit. Maria was taken from her parents and they were questioned about being her parents because she was blonde and fair and they weren't. Or did I miss a complete census of the camp demanding all the brown haired, brown-eyed, darker skinned children and parents were grilled? Link please.

Considering this happened again in Ireland within days after Maria's story broke to two other Roma families, because blonde, it takes an effort to deny the obvious.

"Records proved that the woman found to be looking after Maria claimed to have given birth to six of her 14 children in less than a year"\

Trafficking in human beings is a crime against humanity.

Or she did what millions in the US in the eighties on their income taxes; she lied about how many kids she had.

When I read that, I thought the mostly likely possibility was garden variety fraud, since the bureaucratic system there is terrible. You went to trafficking. Why?

She was BUYING children. She has 14. Buying human beings = Trafficking.

Link me to where anyone but the authorities have said she was selling children, plural, the proof of that, or any time that she was buying children other than in the case of Maria.

This is famous for being famous at this point; teh only reason trafficking was assumed was because Maria was a white blonde and so abduction --> trafficking because Roma. Because some people who have very good reason to desperately need the mother to be the bad guy because God knows they fucked up the original narrative of abducted white kid too badly to recover saying 'trafficking' doesn't make it true.

This is besides the point: I did not say that her adoptive parents should not be investigated for their weird familial situation (in fact I wrote, then deleted as irrelevant a paragraph about saying that being part of a minority does not exempt you from the law), what I said that taking away Maria from her adoptive family is racial profiling for what is effectively a confirmed unofficial adoption.

Let's first find out what is the situation with all the other children: Maria happens to be the only child whose presence is justified by her actual mother who came forward to explain that yes, she had indeed left her daughter in Greece with this family.

If and only if, trafficking or tax/social security fraud regarding any of the other children is proved (innocent until proven guilty, I thought?), then yes, no one said they not should answer for it.

But unless the actual Bulgarian parents of Maria start criminal pursuit (which seems to be the opposite of what they are doing?), then the 'kidnapping' of Maria is the one crime this family is clearly innocent of.

Let me just add that your illogical and heated inference -that their innocence on one count means they are innocent of all other possible charges under the sun- from my replies is a perfect example of prejudice. You are completely proving the point that is the reason for the original post.

Anyway, Seperis has already answered you much better than I could, so let's agree to disagree on the matter.

But quick note for the legally or the internationally minded: innocent until proven guilty is an American concept, but you may have heard that in some other countries, this is not true.

I happen to be from one such country and let me tell you that I cannot say things like 'innocent until proven guilty' without a sarcastic laugh since I notice that in the US, where I have lived the majority of my life, there is this strange double-standard where this principle applies only if you are rich (And preferably white. And being photogenic also helps, I've noticed. And a US citizen. Just in case).

But somehow, if you are not rich, nor white, nor a man you are NOT presumed innocent. As Terry Pratchett once noted in one of his Discworld footnotes (feetnote?) 'some people you just can't help'.

Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest: I am just so tired of the double-standards.


I don't think you are following what I'm saying.

"your illogical and heated inference -that their innocence on one count means they are innocent of all other possible charges under the sun-"

I have no idea what you're referring to. Let's both agree never to discuss anything.

so fucking what? face it, you and people like you can't *stand* the idea that just maybe we Rom are happier outside your much-vaunted system and prefer to stay that way. The fact of the matter is, Maria was being raised by another Roma couple, in a loving home, speaking her own language, and now she is in Bulgaria, and will end up being adopted by some gaje couple whose only "virtue" is that, not being Roma, they will teach her to hate her own people, raise her to their own stupid values, and she will be made to speak their language instead of her own. it's the same thing people like you *always* do, to anyone who doesn't share your values. in Oz it was done to Aborigines, in the US to Native American kids, in Canada to First Nations kids, and to Roma all over the world.

fuck your system, and fuck your values, and above all else fuck the damned foster system, cos that's what it does to the kids it absorbs.

I was blond as a cub, and also Rom, and endless passing white people took it on themselves to commend my mother for adopting Paki babies. Maria will be forced into a school full of asshole kids who beat her up and call her a thieving Gyppo. yeah, great result there, way to go white people.

the people who adopt her are mpore likely to traffic her -- after all, she isn't white so who cares.

It's NOT a "private" matter. It's my understanding this Greek team has attempted to register a large number of children as their own. Why are they accumulating so many children? Who are the rest of the children? What do they do with the children.

It's my understanding this Greek team has attempted to register a large number of children as their own.

The correct term would be "couple", as I understand they are a married couple. Words mean things.

And if the kid had actually been kidnapped or trafficked everyone would be complaining that no one did anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Personally when a child is involved I prefer to air on the side of caution.

Personally, I like to err on the side of not assuming a blonde kid was kidnapped by gypsies, which is basically what this story was about.

I think that's trying to simplfy a situation that at the time wasn't. Maybe if the couple hadn't repeatedly lied about where the little girl was from it wouldn't have been so bad.

Uh, it was that simple when it started. She was blonde and fair and green-eyed and her parents weren't. Unless the entire camp was brought in and all the children questioned about their parents--did I miss that article?

All I'm saying is it's easy to sit on the outside and criticize without knowing all the facts. Something that no police department ever releases all of for prosecution reasons. On top of that you can't trust everything that the news reports to be the honest truth because as you just pointed out they made it sound one way when it had nothing to do with the article they were writing about.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen I'm just that we don't always know everything about what made them take a second look in the first place. News can say one thing fact and truth can be something totally different.

Ireland: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/24/blonde-girl-roma-parents-returned-dna

Two kids, two blondes, both removed from their families for being blonde in a Roma family, right after the story about Maria broke.

The fuck is with the apologists up in here?

I'm glad others realize this was clearly child trafficking, and Maria, and the other children will be abused and exploited. The photo shows how someone had had dyed Maria's hair dark to hide her. So many ignorant people here, who go off without understanding the pain and degradation that was in store for poor, dirty Maria and the thousands of other trafficked Roma children.

Robby, you're banned. Maria's hair wasn't dyed dark, it was blonde, and you're trying to hurt people because you know you're wrong and can't admit it. Your racism is showing, but at least I can make sure it doesn't show here. Humiliate yourself in your own LJ.

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