The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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yeah, no, and fuck you
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
Really.

On behalf of those of us who were and are single women on welfare with children in the South and at some point in our lives lived in a--I need to check the wording--"rural south USA in a welfare slum trailer"--and who do not think our population should be fodder for your smug little war on the word shack:

Fuck. You.

Are you fucking serious?

Are you comparing lower income women's lives--and since you used the word 'welfare', we all know you're talking about women, who make up the majority of welfare clients; women, whose choices and lives are limited by poverty and the difficulties raising children alone, without spousal support; poor urban women, a population that is statistically more likely to be battered by their male partner--to a fucking challenge using the word shack?

I suppose [personal profile] indywind felt it was 'problematic' to use the term 'trailer trash'; should I be grateful? Thank you. Your buddies in that thread who were so excited to read it--and that super clever "Now them's fightin' words!!!" jab--also have my abject gratitude that parts of my life--and my family, friends, and clients from when I was a caseworker who decided benefits for those renters of "rural south USA in a welfare slum trailer"--are being held up in humour example of how southern poverty is totally like using the word shack. I feel as if social justice is on my side.

So, my night is shit. How's everyone else doing?

Posted at Dreamwidth: http://seperis.dreamwidth.org/922277.html. | You can reply here or there. | comment count unavailable comments

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Um, context is kinda missing here.

I mean, I'm in the South, have kids, and lived in a trailer for until 18 months ago.

The entry here is apparently what it is about.

Still don't get what they're talking about, but using poverty in porn is always problematic. There's too many buttons to trip over, and too many people actually know what you're talking about. That's why rich people and/or fantasy settings are safer.

The thing is, though, nobody's using poverty in their Canadian Shack porn. staranise and others have come to that conclusion somehow, but it's completely erroneous.

mstly that sounded like more of the kind of wanking I used to hear growing up in bc; the meme itself sounds annoying as hell but I didn't see a personally-meant sideswipe there. 2 caveats: I've never lived in the South though I have lived in a car and occasionally out in the bushes, I didna have kids to safeguard so I had more options parents do not have. also: mind reading costs extra, so who am I to say what was meant.

can offer sympathetic ear, and u-r-a-friend noogies? (hopes he's not being rude)

Wait. Wait. People are getting worked up over the word "SHACK?" Seriously? Honestly?

...

...

...I got nothin.'

I... wasn't sure if I should respond, because the conversation is heated and also I feel that the OP is mixing up different arguments in a way that clouds the more serious issue (of First Nation poverty) and throws in problematic class assumptions.

However, I do think "shack" in the context of "what real people who live in the rural north of Canada have to live in" can be problematic. If you type "Canadian Shack" into google, you get Ces' challenge. If you type in "First Nations shack" into google, you get Shacks, slop pails on Wasagamack First Nation (CBC.ca). It's a crisis in Canada that we've totally failed to deal with. Me, personally, I'm not going to get up in arms about the Canadian Shack challenge, though someone else with legitimate problems with it might.

Seperis, again my apologies if you'd prefer that I don't try to redirect the conversation. I can always take it elsewhere and you're free to delete my comment.

Thank you for the further explanation and info! I appreciate it and your response.

(Deleted comment)
No, response to someone else's asking for clarification on teh main issue is fine. I'm not objective enough at this point to summarize it without that particular horrific comment coloring my view of their arguments.

(Deleted comment)
Yes, actually, I mentioned over on DW that I didn't think the fic challenge was about First Nations poverty. Here, I was just answering why some people might have an issue with the word "shack" as it relates to people living in the rural north.

Okay, and now I'm really going to stop commenting like I promised!

(Deleted comment)
Yeah. Up here (in the rural north), we have trap-line shacks and ice fishing shacks and regular hunting shacks and supply line shacks on the snowmobile trails.

Unless there's a major difference in meaning across the border with my close neighbors to the North (very possible...the first time I learned what "bottom" was in England I was HORRIFIED and so was my British friend), 'shack' isn't inherently perjorative in common usage. Very context-based.

Hey, I'm sorry it made you feel so terribly! I think the posters in that thread were trying to equate the slashfics taking place in Canadian shacks with hypothetical ones in rural south USA in a welfare slum trailer. The gist, from context, is that they're equally appalling and shouldn't take place at all.

So, um, it's not intentional, probably just badly worded/contexted.

Couldn't be anywhere with poverty or urban poverty; it was rural south USA welfare slum trailer. I mean, maybe being a former inhabitant of such a location I'm too sensitive, but without intent, it's pretty much even worse.

Threatening to write it in a fit of classist outrage is...I have no idea what that is, but it's sick.

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. Whether or not there was intent, that was an offensive remark, and should not have been made. I personally don't agree with mockery as a way to bring attention to issues, but I truly think that we're probably all in agreement here about how devastating it is when people marginalise poor and neglected populations.

May I offer you a hug?

(Deleted comment)
Thank you for saying something sensible about that whole discussion.

/random comment

I know you're joking to make a point, but can we just... not?

And lack of coherency doesn't mean there won't be people who have issues with pairing the word "shack" and what that means for people living in rural Canada, okay?

(seperis, you have IP logging on so you know who this is. Sorry for going anon, but I just don't want to deal any more.)

I never check IP unless someone is being offensive and/or trolly. NP.

*sends hugs*

*hugs back*

I am all out of energy for this kind of bullshit, in the general sense of having spent the better part of 35 years defending how and where I grew up, and in the specific sense of this was a longass fucking day where nothing went right, so... just. I get you, man. I know.

I've been arguing on tumblr with people who think male feminists should be excommunicated if it turns out they have ever in their life hurt a woman under any circumstances?

*random lightening up of the mood on this thread but:* Your icon is teh rock.

omg and there it is again. *reels back in delight*

So many levels.

Argh... yes this kind of thing is really, really irritating.

I had a similar reaction to yours a few months ago upon reading someone's post who -while ranting against a supposedly anti-Chinese article- was sideswiping Europe apparently without even realizing it, and all her friends then cheerfully agreeing to her superficially politically correct remarks.

As a European myself, I took a rather dim view of the whole thing and regret to say I am still furious about it. Not that said person would care, of course. What? We are not American, so we are below dirt? Thanks anyway.

Well, never mind all that, I'll go check out this un-PC challenge!

*hugs from one of your usual anon stalkers*

I've gone away and thought about this for a few days and upon reflection am still very cross with the original post, which in my mind started the whole conversation off in the wrong tone.

Until I moved to England six years ago, lived my entire life on and around First Nations reserves. I've even been to Attawapiskat, which the staranise linked to information about. In contrast, many or even most Canadians have never been on a reserve.

Reserves can be very deprived and have a lot of problems, but they are usually also great, close-knit communities. Including Attawapiskat! They are more than a convenient example of 'shackland' and infrastructure crises to support a rant against a tongue-in-cheek internet challenge.

The whole conversation has put my back up something fierce. I feel like it has reduced both northern First Nations and Southern communities to nasty, dreary little places -- and I guess it is therefore no wonder staranise doesn't want to be associated with places like that.

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