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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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in which i am totally not bitter
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
I'm really tempted, for the sake of my sanity, to open a post for everyone who will see Star Trek (the Reboot) but hasn't yet, so we can all be bitterly jealous together and I'm not tempted to destroy small worlds and all my friends who have seen it.

In lieu of actually doing that, I had this great idea to to run over to alt.startrek.creative and ASCEML and see what everyone is saying. Because in the end, that's where I started in fandom, and I also started fandom in Trek, so lo, I wanted to return to my forefathers and also see if anyone posted fic there, and also because I wanted to see what the official acronym and pairing codes and code hierarchy were going to be.

Seriously, if you have never lived in a fandom where that was all decided by community to standard and you got to use single letter designators for each half of your pairing and everyone knew what it meant....well, my friend, you have not yet lived. I miss that. Holy God, do I miss that.

[For the record, I read Stephen's idea of ST:TOR and seriously feel that is the most awesome thing ever.]

Wait, I got off-topic.

I started with ASCEML and then went to ASC. Granted, I may have missed a page or so, but color me surprised that so far, the reactions are wildly divergent from what I expected.

I am going to toss this out there--



Sure, it is not Star Trek, but have you seen John Sheppard? I lost that.

So ASC, you surprise me.

But okay, I went in the course of three posts from wincing in sympathy for the TOSsers and suddenly, inexplicably deciding I hate TOS which is like hating my own soul, because holy. God. I get the hatred! I am still calling Stargate Universe SG90210!

[Unironically, someone in ASC called this Star Trek 90210. Let me say, well done.]

Predictability doesn't necessarily make it any less irritating or rage inducing when condescending meets smug and picks up pseudo-intellectualism for a threesome and calls itself a post about Star Trek purity and the evils of the soulless whippersnappers. I mean, I hate that. It's actually this--okay, this is one of my issue places of buttonness. I don't know why, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't the newsgroups, but it took me five and a half seconds to go from zero to DIAF IN A VOYAGER SHUTTLE because I've kind of wondered how that would work with shuttles in vacuum and they lost an awful lot of shuttles.

It's also like every damn argument I hate in fandom.



Also, seriously, I feel bad for any new Trek people wading in there. Of the three or four posts on the movie, all of the conversation threads are really, really unpleasant, with minimal bright spots. Not a squeezone.

[Actually, if anyone found a squee zone over there, link plz? that was just depressing.]

ETA: I forgot to say, ASCEML does have some squee doing it's squee there. I am seriously hoping for old school positivity on the new Trek because some of those writers are amazing.


I'm really tempted, for the sake of my sanity, to open a post for everyone who will see Star Trek (the Reboot) but hasn't yet, so we can all be bitterly jealous together and I'm not tempted to destroy small worlds and all my friends who have seen it.

I'd join in a NY minute. I agreed to see it with a coworker, who isn't free until Thursday night, and in the meantime, I am REALLY ANNOYED yet HIGHLY ENTERTAINED by all the squee on my flist.

And yes, I realized after I agreed that seeing it on Thursday night meant a) I'd have to wait a whole WEEK after it opened and b) It was the night of the Smallville finale. I don't screw up small, do I?

I am REALLY ANNOYED yet HIGHLY ENTERTAINED by all the squee on my flist.

YES! I AM SQUEEFUL YET WANT TO KILL. It is very confusing.

Seriously, if you have never lived in a fandom where that was all decided by community to standard and you got to use single letter designators for each half of your pairing and everyone knew what it meant....well, my friend, you have not yet lived. I miss that. Holy God, do I miss that.

ME TOO!!!! &hearts

Trek, Jenn. TREK. GOOD TREK. I can't wait for you to see it and to read what you thought- I'm really damn well looking forward to THAT.

I am seriously about to fall apart. It had to open on mother's day weekend, dammit, where sadly, no one accepted MUST SEE TREK as an excuse.

I cannot wait, seriously.

(Deleted comment)
I read great squee on LJ, but man, teh newsgroups are condensed Trek history. I mean, I totally get there is rebellion--oh let me remind myself of my initial reaction to the end of Voyager and the announcement of Enterprise--but man, I went back and forward on ASC and it was just--no.

ASCEML had some positive that I skimmed and saved back for this evening for happier reading. I have this insane hope the old school K/S writers will consider coming in on it, because God, some of them were amazing.

I'm not a mailing list person, so I've mostly been surfing LJ and DW for squee ;) jmtorres has been collecting links in her DW, and I think most of them are squeeful, though a few take a more critical approach: http://jmtorres.dreamwidth.org/1330689.html

But I have to ask, what do you mean by Sure, it is not Star Trek, but have you seen John Sheppard? I lost that.?

Er, Stargate:Atlantis doesn't have the weight and history of Trek, but John was very very hot and as they feel they lost their TOS, I lost John. So to speak.

I bookmarked jmtorres last night! God I need to see this movie.

I haven't seen the movie yet, and I preface this by saying that I've seen only a handful of the original series episodes, however... How can anyone take it that seriously? Really? A friend was telling me about a forum post in some huge unofficial star trek forum, where someone posted a three-page essay about how there was some scene in a pipe room, and in a world with replication technology there is no need for pipes, and he felt he just couldn't respect any movie that didn't play enough attention to the engineering.

Again, only seen very small amounts of the original series, but... really? You think realism is a hallmark of Star Trek? Really?

This is fandom. The whole enterprise (sorry!) is based on taking things that seriously.

I don't disagree with you (I have seen the original series, but not the movie yet), but you know, it's what fans do.

I'll join your little party of Haven't Seen It Yets. Still negotiating for a time this week....

Watching the emergence of movie fanfic and not knowing enough about Trek in general or the movie in particular, I sort of wonder if there'll be the same kind of divide that happened when the X-Men movie came out and you had the old-school comicsverse people and then Movieverse, which was such a different creature, and the low-grade family feud that followed. I suppose it won't be as bad as all of this Trek is nominally happening in the same universe and the old school is pretty much the standard for old school fandoms.

*tongue in cheek* I remember the implied pedophilia discussions about Wolverine and Rogue really well. And one rec--from somewhere--about a fic I wrote that literally had a disclaimer about how even though it was Wolverine/Rogue, it wasn't terrible.

See, I'm wondering about the divide. The Treks have, up to now, all existed in the same universe, show and movie (books and animated excepted). I think this will be as new to them, and so far, I'm seeing a similar split. Then again, Trek fans hated each new Trek franchise before moving on, so it could go that way, too.

I haven't seen Star Trek yet either. We can be bitter together. So many posts! So many cut tags I dared not click! Entire swathes of my Google Reader feeds that I had to skip! (I didn't even want to read professional reviews, because of the odds they'd spoil something I (and nobody else in the universe) consider vital).

TOR gets my vote, too.

[I]f you have never lived in a fandom where that was all decided by community to standard ... you have not yet lived.

LOL! I can't imagine fandom without it. What a strange place it is out there. ;^)

ASC had surprised me at first in some of the comments--but ayalesca's right, on, too. There have been some excellent, level and supportive responses. (I need to check in later... \\mental note//) Then again, this morning I read in another comm someone writing something to the effect of, "If you don't like this new Trek, you're an idiot and not a real fan." It's not the first time I've seen it, and it makes me shrug. Fanbrats go both ways, and are equally boorish.

I plan to wait until all the hype's worn down then casually go see what someone else's A/U is all about.

LOL! I can't imagine fandom without it. What a strange place it is out there. ;^)

Seriously, I still miss knowing my pairing codes in single digit combos by hierarchy. That was just awesome. And my show codes!

Then again, this morning I read in another comm someone writing something to the effect of, "If you don't like this new Trek, you're an idiot and not a real fan." It's not the first time I've seen it, and it makes me shrug. Fanbrats go both ways, and are equally boorish.

ARgh. Not even surprised. Kind of want to strangle them all. I mean, we could have had the the Star Wars prequels. *shudders* We could have had Jar-Jar. We seriously need to ponder that horror.

I'm really tempted, for the sake of my sanity, to open a post for everyone who will see Star Trek (the Reboot) but hasn't yet, so we can all be bitterly jealous together and I'm not tempted to destroy small worlds and all my friends who have seen it.

I would have to join you, because I can't see it for ANOTHER WEEK and it's driving me crazy. Already there's fic and comms and Original vs. Reboot wank--I want to play with the shiny new fandom tooooo!

Already there's fic and comms and Original vs. Reboot wank--I want to play with the shiny new fandom tooooo!

YES. I WANT TO BE PART OF THE REBOOT WANK. And write fic. A LOT.

Really, so much fun being post-fandom when a new installment comes out, because I can enjoy the nostalgic squee and already have the backstory to appreciate it, but if they screw things up or the more rabid fen aren't happy, I don't have to care.

What does TOR stand for? The Original Reboot?

I walked out of that theater with such a big grin on my face, and I still have a Starfleet uniform hanging in my closet (right next to the Bajoran security uniform), so the unrefined geeks wailing about the reboot can STFU as far as I'm concerned.

Really, so much fun being post-fandom when a new installment comes out, because I can enjoy the nostalgic squee and already have the backstory to appreciate it, but if they screw things up or the more rabid fen aren't happy, I don't have to care.

HEE! YES!

And TOR is The Original Reboot, to keep the allusion to TOS, The Original Series.

I have seen all the series, all the movies and even read some of the books. I actually liked the reboot and think it can stand on its own.

I am going to miss not being able to explore Vulcan a la Spock's World in this version, but I am fascinated to find out where they go with that.

My knowledge of TOS is spotty, most of my ideas about the TOS characters are from the movies, and I followed Next Gen and DS:9 fairly religiously. So I'm both familiar with and love old skool but also happily riding the new school OMG YAY squee.

"Others are on that! I don't have to be! WHEE NEW TREK SHINY!" kind of sums it up for me. *g*

*glee* I love that they've reopened Trek so brilliantly. We needed this. And God knows, we could have gotten something like the Star Wars prequel, so honestly, I am just utterly relieved there is no Ensigh Jar Jar, you know?

I'll join too. I might be able to go this weekend . . .

(I've seen all of the movies in the theater, except the last one which I haven't seen at all. Even though I own it.)

Nemesis? I--need to see it. *grim* And the one right before. I think the last Trek movie I saw was First Contact.

ASCEML still exists???

Wow. That was my first fandom home, back in the glory days. I can't tell you how hilarious I found it that there was a sh*ttle*cr*ft scene right at the beginning of the movie, just to porn things up right at the start. (Old skool ASCEML injoke, folks).

Are people there really hating on the new fandom? That's so sad, considering Abrams went out of his way not to retcon anything from the old fandom while opening up a big new sandbox. WE STILL HAVE THE OLD SANDBOX PEOPLE. I mean, I remember the day before the first LotR movie hit, when LotR fandom was still a sleepy backwater full of literature majors and linguistics nerds. I lived through that, so this does not faze me.


ASCEML still exists???

Ooh yeah, and the ASC newsgroup. Not superactive, but not bad at all considering how long they've been around.

I can't tell you how hilarious I found it that there was a sh*ttle*cr*ft scene right at the beginning of the movie, just to porn things up right at the start. (Old skool ASCEML injoke, folks).

*falls over* Oh man. It was before my time, but I went back and read that category from the ASCEML Golden O's in 99/2000. *giggling madly*

I think we're all there, you know?
As fans of the original series, we feel like gouging our eyes out and crying.
But we cannot ignore these bastards knew what they were doing (and where smart enough to stay the hell out of our canon by creating this parallel reality) and had the budget to get some pretty amazing actors and create some pretty amazing effects.
So it's like: on one side "Shiny!" and on the other "Death to the infidels" because, dude, did you really need to poach our fandom since you're not original or creative enough on your own?
So, total ambivalence. I get it.

Yes? And also, no. I say this with love, because I loved Voyager and I watched TOS and TNG religiously--Trek fandom needed the reboot. It's not just the fact the last two movies were--questionable. Or that Enterprise was not a shining beacon (neither was Voyager, for that matter, but again, I loved Voyager hugely). Trek without reboot is has a scope that I'm not sure any fandom, any show, any media has ever matched.

I think--and I could be wrong--that a lot of the problems people are having is with teh implied idea that the original wasn't good enough, or treating this like it's supposed to be a superior remake, which--I'm sure people do believe that, sure. People believe lots of crazy things. But when i finally let myself get spoiled and realized what Abrams was doing with this, I just--that's kind of amazing. He didn't retcon, he didn't break canon, he didn't overwrite anything that was already there. He created a new canon as a direct offshoot of the old so it stayed itself. So it's--in all possible worlds, I feel just intensely lucky this wasn't a BSG sort of remake--this was done to open Trek up again. Canonical Trek parallel Universe the movie.

I mean, the most accurate comparison I can make is the TNG Tasha Yar sitch--and seriously, that was damned brilliant. That Abrams did it and then said, okay, now lets follow along with Trek Mark 2 universe instead of going back and staying in Trek Mark 1--lets see what happens at this fork in the road. It's like if we'd been allowed to this time, instead of seeing the alternate and then return to the original, we get to see how the alternate played out instead of jsut a glimpse.

I just--can't quite get over how much I love this. As a Trek fan, we get two canon existing universes that both exist without either beign destroyed. That is possibly the coolest thing. Ever.