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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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episode review: supernatural 4.10
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
Oh.



I am crushing on Castiel like whoa.

Things That Make Me Wonder

Uriel is the pissiest angel that ever angeled, I have to say. Not that this makes me like him less; if you were bopping around earth with Castiel the human-lover and watching humans for a few thousand years doing their level best to self-destruct, you'd be pretty grumpy too. For some reason the ape bit struck me--I have this image of him around during Darwin's lectures going "I KNEW IT. SPEAK IT. APES IN PANTS EVEN." Which makes no sense, but I never promise sense. I'm just saying, Darwin groupie. Also, I bet that insult worked loads better seventy or so years ago.

Uriel's neat. He's sarcastic and driven and kind of vicious and embodies Wrath inside a very thin layer of humanesque skin. I really want to see him with a flaming sword. He doesn't like humans. I mean, even in a theoretical sort of way. I'd almost say resentment, which makes me wonder if his celestial version of hatred for Anna was at least in part not Disobedience, capital D, but wanting to be one of them. What I'm not sure of either way, though it makes me curious, if he hates humans in that eww, beneath me way, or hates them because of the gift they received of free will that he wants for himself (aka Lucifer which I keep wanting to spell with a v and don't know why), or hates them because of their abuse of that gift. Basically, I could be convinced on any of them but I lean toward b just because the idea fascinates me.

The thing that makes me wonder is, considering Uriel's not-very-divorced-from-his-ape-skin-emotions, if possessing a human subjects angels to being less in the way of angelically neutral and more human. In their pure form, sure, they are the ultimate in embodiment of God's will, but I have to think that living in a human shell and being subject to flesh has to have an effect of some kind. Even if it's muted.

There's also the fact that Uriel was carrying around Anna's grace and that was malice. I just--no matter what Anna et al say about angels having no feelings, Uriel in humansuit is either more subject to them than anyone admits, or Uriel is ripe for a hard Fall. Lucifer hated humans too, didn't he? Resented their free will? If this is going that direction, I am so there.

This is not a way to ship Dean/Castiel. I ship them sans thoughts on the subject.

Things That Make Me Happy

Castiel is--I don't even know. I love his complexity. I love his not-exactly-innocence, and his sweetness, and that terrifying bedrock center of him that's absolute stillness compared to Uriel's constant inner motion. I love that he likes Dean, because he would, and he likes humans, and he finds the world beautiful and worth saving. And I wonder if it was Anna's fall that did it for him, or if he was already sympathetic and watched her fall and wished he could join her. And if that is why he was sent to Dean in the first place, because seriously, I cannot see Uriel dragging Dean out of hell. I mean, I try, because hey, God's will. And I just can't.

Castiel is my crack. I love him and his coat and unbuttoned collar and the way he thinks about everything even while he does it.

Dean waiting thirty years to go to the dark side is cool, but what's weirdly cooler is if it's possible, if this is how demons are made, couldn't they just group together and take over and get out? I'm just saying, uprising in hell isn't the worst idea ever. There's something in that which is teasing my memory, but I'm not sure what it is. My theology is sketchy and odd, but you know, even if the more powerful demons of hell are the ones that accompanied Lucifer, pretty sure humans outnumber them. I don't know where I'm going with this, but in a war between heaven and earth, that seems significant. Ruby came back, after all, in whatever morally ambiguous way she has. John Winchester went somewhere not-hell, because Dean would have seen him if he was still there, as that would be traumatic for him and they were all about eternal trauma.

I am in the minority on this, but I like this Ruby a lot better than the other one. I don't know why, but she works for me the way that the other one just irritated me. I think part of it was the other Ruby never felt as close to understandable, or human, as this one did. The girl crawled out of hell at least twice trying to save humanity knowing what her fate would be. That's freaking awesome, and I feel it in her this time around, what it cost her and why she might have done it.

Anna was just neat. I liked her humanity and how when she remembered what she was, it felt like she was so much more. And I loved how she knew what Dean had gone through and how he had to forgive himself. And how Dean slept with an angel which was totally coming since Sam is nailing a demon and the universe likes symmetry. He's as fallen as she is in a way, from human to demon, like she went from angel to human.

Other Points to Ponder

Seriously, Uriel, watch that resentment. Your grace feels very thin.

Dean crying is never going to not hurt. Sam, this is a time for hugging. I mean, really. That was a a lightning strike of hugging-need there.

Demon uprising, good idea, bad idea?

And where did Anna go? I like to think she went straight to the Throne; being an angel can't necessarily exempt her from the law, but then again, if she was the superior to Castiel and Uriel, it's not like they can discipline her and I doubt she chose to redux to Hell.

(And okay, I was getting The Last Unicorn vibes all over the place on that. I wonder if returning to grace changes what she's become. I kind of want to think it doesn't. I mean, example Uriel of not being a numb ball of light. Which again, if they are going for a hard Fall to Hell with him, I'm riveted.)

Castiel watching Anna and Dean was fascinating. I don't know what it was, and I don't know what I want it to be. Castiel likes them both. I wonder if he's the reason they never came for Anna before now.

And that's my thoughts. And my continuing hope of Dean/Castiel, because wow. Just. Wow.


(Deleted comment)
Hee. I only think that's what they meant. Perhaps I've been here too long!

Castiel watching Anna and Dean was fascinating. I don't know what it was, and I don't know what I want it to be. Castiel likes them both. I wonder if he's the reason they never came for Anna before now.

Fascinating like whoa. serrico has a theory, for she is smart, that...no, no, I need to quote it:

Anna is the female conduit through which Dean and Castiel TOTALLY HAD SEX TONIGHT, YOU GUYS.

Heh. She lays out her theory in a numbered list of awesomeness. But Castiel's watching tonight was insanely noticeable. Awesomesauce.

And I had the same thought about angels being unemotional. 'Cause Uriel? Not exactly cool as a cucumber and all that.

I am totally behind conduit theory. It makes me happy. *g*

Castiel is my crack. I love him and his coat and unbuttoned collar and the way he thinks about everything even while he does it.

Yes! *This.*

I love the Winchesters in and of themselves, I *do*, but it kind of amazes me how *refreshing* Castiel is, both in terms of what he's done to the boys' dynamic and what he (and the general fact of ACTUAL ANGELS) has done to the show's narrative potential. It's *nifty*.

Yes. Castiel is just--*squee*. Makes me so happy. And God, that actor....

*swoons*

Castiel watching Anna and Dean was fascinating.

Oh goodness yes. There might've been dolphin noises when that happened. It was an interesting choice to focus on Castiel, since we never actually got Sam's reaction to the Dean/Anna at all. I really hope that it's foreshadowing of sorts, mmm. I'm *so* glad they're keeping Castiel around.

I want to like Ruby because of what they *want* to do with her. She definitely smoothed out a lot since S3's incarnation, and it felt like a very conscious writing choice, to make her more sympathetic to the audience. SPN isn't a show to play deep twists, but I can't help but want to keep one eye open for her to turn against the boys in the end.

I'm wondering if she will too. I'd be happy either way with her.

I love this Ruby. And I pretty much agree with everything you have said.

Your thoughts about a Hell uprising really tickles my fancy, and I'm very curious at your thoughts.

This Ruby rocks. And the actress is loosening up a little...

I'm just saying, uprising in hell isn't the worst idea ever. There's something in that which is teasing my memory, but I'm not sure what it is.

Hmmm, Zena did a some stuff with Hell and her taking it over to get out, and I think there have been other movies that have similarly tackled the theme.

That said, maybe you were think of the story of the elbowless arms:
A person was given a vision of Hell and in it saw tables laden with food and all sorts of wonderful things. He was surprised at how great it looked, but on closer inspection saw the people around the table were all sobbing and screaming in hunger, hurting each other in anger - because no one had any elbows so they couldn't bend their arms to bring the food to their mouths and so were starving and in agony.

The person was then given a view of Heaven and in it saw tables laden with food and all sorts of wonderful things. He was surprised because it looked exactly like Hell. Upon closer inspection though, he saw that everyone was happy, despite the fact that they also had no elbows and couldn't feed themselves. In heaven, people were feeding each other.

So, the whole idea of that story is that in Hell people weren't able to work together to do anything, even something as necessary as eating because they couldn't cooperate together or trust each other to help. So there could never be an uprising in Hell because there is no trust or cooperation.

So it's possible that's what was niggling at the back of your mind?

Maybe. That sounds vaguely familiar, or something like it.

*mulls* Either way, thank you for that story!

I loooooooooooove Castiel. That is all.

Am I the only one that hated emo!Anna? Cause really...

So she was frigging bored for 2,000 years just hanging about and didn't have faith so then she deliberately fell into human form and ends up with her "parents" murdered (who probably wouldn't have been touched by demons except for her), puts the whole Angel "network" at risk cause now she's human and can be tortured safely without her "grace" by the demons to find out what she knows, endangers, Ruby, Dean & Sam trying to fight to get her back up there? She/He/It was reacting more like a bored teenager at the mall. Seriously. All this bleep because she couldn't keep it together. And what would God do with an angel like that once she returned? Send her on another mission? Could she ever be trusted again? Or did she just blow herself up permanently when she assumed the angelic power again?

On the other hand Ruby showed more guts and loyalty and faith than the "fallen" angel Anna did. I'd been wishy washy on Ruby until now but she stepped up big time to help the boys protect emo!Anna.

On the plus side for a Dean/Castiel shipper I had to say that Uriel telling Dean Castiel "liked" him made me scream "liked, liked?" and then Dean went and saved his Cass when Allistair had him down for the count and was trying to pull some big ass spell on him. Go Dean! And, despite, the sex scene between Anna & Dean I still prefer the longing, piercing looks Cass send's Dean's way to anything emo!Anna dished out. Although, being human, Jensen shirtless is a wonderful thing. Too bad the writers won't go *there* between Cass & Dean cause they're my OTP. *g*

Edited at 2008-11-21 03:09 pm (UTC)

Re: Am I the only one that hated emo!Anna? Cause really...

Okay.

(aka Lucifer which I keep wanting to spell with a v and don't know why)

Flashbacks to Lucivar, perhaps?

[edited to fix my appalling html]
All I'm doing is sitting over here, wiggling with glee that Dear Old Ossifer Kripke is actually going there, he's doing the ol' Yahweh can I say that here without anybody getting offended? dance, he's going back to the beginnings and showing the God of the old testament, the mean old fire and brimstone God who wasn't necessarily about loving kindness and forgiveness. This ain't Walt Disney's God, kiddies, and I'm just absolutely thrilled.

As for Anna, well, she fell. She's got her grace back, but she fell. Does that make her a real fallen angel, like Samael, now? Will she be allowed back before the throne or not? Or is she a free agent? Could she be like the Chuck Norris of Angels (which, you know, would be so damn cool)?

I'm with you about Ruby, too, at least now. I was wish-washy with her until last night but she sure delivered.

Uprising of demons... I think Neil Gaiman wrote about that, didn't he?

You know, I will say this about this Ruby: I don't think Katie Cassidy could have sold this week. I don't think we would have bought her fear long enough to think she was double-crossing them (she always came across as someone with an agenda, which she was, but this story needed her to seem like she didn't), and I don't think we would have bought her being tortured as part of the plan. So yeah, I'm sold now, I think.

I wonder if he's the reason they never came for Anna before now.


I like this idea! Although my assumption was that they never came for her because there was no need. She'd become mortal, so she was going to die anyway. But now, she was a threat.

Dean crying is never going to not hurt. Sam, this is a time for hugging. I mean, really. That was a a lightning strike of hugging-need there.

IT IS SNUGGLE-TIEMS NAO!!!! *WEEPS*

Uriel's neat.

huh. to me Uriel is a zealot. to me zealots are to root of all that is bad about religion. zealots taken to the extreme are the root off jihads and other excesses of religion.

what I see happening? Uriel could either triumph or fall. either way he will cause great harm.

either way, he's a pivotal character. but that's been pretty obvious from the start.

(and can I say shades of Earthian with the whole 'been here thousands of years observing' schtick?)

He's a zealot, but zealots aren't limited to religion; religion just seems to give zealots a good outlet for their issues, like certain political stances or civilizations. It's part of why I like him, I think; he embodies the absolute belief of righteousness that's found in the really determined ones.

pregnancy.

i'll bet you a shiny dime.

Dean slept with an angel

Dude. Dean made sweat love to an angel. We now have confirmation that Dean is apparently not only a sex god but can also woe the ladies with slow love.

I don't think I'll ever be able to actually comment coherently on anything else in the episode. Kudos to you for all the coherence.

sweet even.

*ponders*

that comment totally loses something with the whole random word switching.