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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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sarah palin - welcome to the liberal blogosphere
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
Unpopular political opinion time:

You know, after what happened to Hillary Clinton during primaries, I kind of guessed what would happen when Sarah Palin was put up for the Republican VP candidate. I am very unsurprised to note the first things that occurred were mentions of the following things that apparently, are reasons she cannot possibly be a good president and/or comments on her:

1.) A beauty queen.

2.) References to her vagina.

3.) Hockey mom*. (not a quote from someone, but a quote of a quote made elsewhere)

4.) Number of children.

The really weird part? These were all from my flist.

I think this is great. Why discuss her anti-abortion, anti-gay-marriage, iffy environmental stance, or her ideology? Why discuss her own maverick status in Alaska when she opened ethics investigations? Why on earth would we be vaguely interested in the decisions she's made as Alaskan governor or anything she's done?

Yes, she's unknown. And Biden is not a household name. Shocker. Yes, she doesn't have a lot of experience. I swear I've heard this argument before. Yes, she could end up being the first female vice president, because the democrats chose another white male for the VP slot despite numerous very qualified female candidates, among which was Hillary Clinton. We can't complain about that. We had our chance and we missed it.

Yes, she's a conservative. A conservative with views and an ideology that is radically against what most of us believe. That is what we should be looking at, studying, what we should be discussing.

The blogosphere is a cesspool already with this, and the primaries were, for me, so offensive I couldn't talk about it and honestly, I still can't. I'm a democrat, and my party chose the candidates that will act, with any kind of luck, closest to the beliefs I hold dear. But I'm also a woman, and this is--I have no idea. Something is wrong with this, when we, who are many of us liberal women, choose this path twice against opponents.

I'm kind of expecting an unfriending for this one.

*clarification - this was not said by an ljer or used in a derogatory way by an ljer. it was quoted by an ljer about what the candidate said about herself and then I saw it elsewhere on the net used in a derogatory way. My apologies on not being clear.


It is nice to see another person who is actually addressing/mentioning the important issues.

Exactly! These are *hugely important* and reasons I personally won't vote for her. But attacking her by way of her sex is basically going to turn off a lot of people. And frankly, it makes liberals look like huge hypocrites, which sadly, we really are.

I almost immediately got a sick feeling when I learned a bit about her, because I knew it would be overwhelmingly tempting to criticise her in ways that were all about her choices as a woman. It's all calculated to make people attack her in the laziest of ways. Which sucks when there are so many legitimate ways to attack her! God, watching her speak after watching Obama last night - he's in another freaking league. Doesn't mean she won't be very very popular with certain sections, though.

Oh - the "hockey mom" thing is her own terminology, though.

Yes, this. Gah.

Oh, I know, it was quoted on my lj, and I probably wouldn't have remembered it except it came up in blogosphere in a way that--well, not complimentary, let's put it that way.

Yeah, the Daily Kos comment sections went from Obama Rocks to Stupid Bitch in 5 minutes flat this morning. I'll probably have to stop going there for the next several weeks or I'll find myself trying to register as a Whig in reaction. And what's more, I doubt the commentors get that insulting Palin based on her gender insults around half the readers of the site as well.

God, don't remind me. I went in and ran out as quickly as I could before I read anything.

Well, as for gender insults--women do it as much as men do, without even thinking about it--the beauty queen bit was from a woman and *did* piss me off, because what the hell did that have to do with whether or not she could govern? Just--gah. No.

I've seen all those misogynistic points raised on Daily Kos, but pleasantly enough, I've seen almost none of it on my f'list (except in that "I hope we don't sink to that level" way). My objections to her are entirely based on her sucky political views. I can't see any reason why anybody would unfriend you for saying what you've said.

Yep. Her politics do nothing for me from what I've read so far. Being *more* conservative than McCain is not something I'd be thrilled about.

I think I'd friend you twice if I could.

Actually what I was most unhappy about is her poor environmental record, and that was the comment I had with someone else on my FL. Because one of the biggest environmental charities I support - Defenders of Wildlife - is all about the slaughter of wolves in Alaska.

*sigh*

God, the wolves, I saw that and flinched so hard. Of all the things...

I'm not going to unfriend over her. Change her name to Steve instead of Sarah and I'd dislike her just as much.

What really bugs me is I feel as though he picked her just because she's a woman and thinks we'll vote for him because he picked a woman. She has a history I despise so it wouldn't work with me anyway but just the idea of why he picked her is insulting. Every woman I spoke to today said the same thing.

Editing to add that I posted a silly post about her because I don't want to talk about serious issues on my blog.

Edited at 2008-08-29 11:19 pm (UTC)

*thoughtful* I don't particularly like it, but on the other hand, it was a pretty good move in some ways in more than her being female. I don't find it insulting, though, to be honest--irritating, yes, that the democrats didn't do it and we potentially have the first female VP and possible president be a Republican after liberal politics and liberal social movements made it possible.

Not from me.

I fully expect the horror of the Democratic primary season to continue--that is, the thinly-veiled misogyny will continue, except now it will be extended to the left-wing side of the blogosphere (those that weren't already on that train). It makes me so very tired.

I think McCain's made a very strategic choice, except for the fact that he passed over multiple experienced female Republicans in order to choose Palin, and I'd love to know why. What makes Palin better than Hutchinson, or Janet Napolitano (she's Republican, isn't she?)?

You know, that part throws me too. Hutchinson isn't actually a *bad* choice, speaking as a liberal--I do not love her nor would I vote for her, but I wouldn't fear waking up in A Handmaid's Tale with her either. However, and this is just the lightest gloss of reading so far, I think her status as a maverick attracted him--while conservative, she's not controlled by the party or its ideology, if what I read is anything to go by. So it should be interesting.

Word.

The woman's societal/social currency encompasses her brain and beliefs and experience and political contacts *IN ADDITION TO* her ability to appear physically attractive and spawn offspring. And the latter have only a little bearing on the former.

I'm a liberal Texan, too, but I'm also a feminist, and, whether or not I agree with a word she says, I hate seeing the intense public focus on a smart, potentially very important woman reduced to a critical examination of her cunt.

This, yes. Exactly. Exactly. I wish I'd been able to distill this into those two sentences.

You are totally right.

I'm guilty of posting a link to that faux Vogue Cover and of thinking that Mc Cain's choice will be spun and over-analysed in such a way that it's a slam-dunk for Obama but, it should be about the issues not the personality in front of the issues.

We're guilty of falling into main-media-pundit terminology and traps and we should be smarter than that. Not that it's my country or my election.

What I did learn, travelling round the blogsphere is that she stood up to big oil. Considering she's pro-drilling in Alaska I found that odd, interesting and of note. And damn if issues such as this shouldn't be more important than the fact that she named her daughter's Piper and Willow.

Someone from Alaska posted an interesting blog article on Daily Dish entitled The Alaska Angle, but it seems as if Foreign Policy is going to get her.

Edited at 2008-08-29 11:20 pm (UTC)

sholio has been doing some corrections and additions since she's from the area in one of my earlier posts. Thanks for the oil thing. I thought I saw that, but I could not remember where, so now I know yes, I did see something. I also liked what I read about her ethics investigations. She's not hugely popular with Republicans either.

I've reached the point in the year where I will begin automatic defriendings for political talk of any sort, pretty much, and this is why. Really, the ranty pseudo-ideological overreactions to things that are irrelevant - ie, things that have NOTHING TO DO WITH HER GODDAMNED POLITICS - just piss me off. But to be truthful, almost anything having to do with politics pisses me off this time of year.

Yes, this. Exactly.

I can't wait until the election is over. Can't. Wait.

I honestly can't imagine why you'd get unfriended for that post.

I'm in a kind of informational vacuum at the moment. I honestly hadn't heard anything other than that she was selected as his running-mate. I'd really like to hear more about her, quite frankly, because it sounds like she's actually a conservative instead of utterly insane, but stuff like that is why I'm afraid to go looking. Also there's no chance in hell I'm voting for McCain no matter who his running-mate is, so the point is a little moot, but still.

*nodding to all*

sholio did some clarification in an earlier post I made. I kind of want to know at least what we're looking at, because there's always the possibility she *could* be VP and I'd like to be forewarned on what to expect, you know?

Interestingly, the knee-jerk reaction I've seen on my flist is "Oh, hell, he picked a woman in his zeal to prove he's a maverick! The GOP is not the Old White Guys' Party! C'mon, ladies, let's not be stupid enough to fall for it. This is just insulting."

I think she's drastically unqualified for the position, and her personal ideology is so diametrically opposed from mine I'd be more likely to vote for Ralph Nader than her. But I haven't seen as much of the vitriol as you have.

Then again, I stay out of most of the blogosphere.

Smart woman. I glazed a couple of conservative blogs then hit a few liberal, flinched, and ran. I am just not up to dealing with that.

I think I echo blueraccoon, mostly, in what I'm seeing on my flist.

My own feelings? Misogyny isn't okay, but I do feel a sort of black-humored need to make fun of the GOP for the choice. To me it smacks so strongly of "Hey, we better get a woman, since they have a minority" that I am repelled. (Well, more than I normally am repelled by the conservative idiocy of the GOP on any given day, I guess.) Palin's politics are atrocious in many ways - I mean, I've heard a few good things ("populist" is not a four-letter descriptive, in my book), but her anti-choice and creationism stances terrify me, and her environmental views are just - *waves arms* I can't even imagine how she can reconcile reality with the things that have come out of her mouth. (Polar bears aren't endangered! And putting them on the endangered species list makes life more difficult for drilling companies! Oh noes!)

So, am I making fun of the Republicans for this choice? Oh, hell yes. But am I horrified because she's a woman? Hell no. I do think "beauty queen" remarks are wayyyy out of line, but luckily I haven't seen too much of that on my flist today. (Ahhh, default view, you are a Good Thing.)

*nods* Her environmental is *really* unhappy-making. I need to get better clarification on that and the aerial hunting of wolves thing, as both of those made me flinch *hard*.

The anti-choice is problematic to me. I'm very pro-choice, but I can't quite tell (yet) if she's actively anti-choice or passively so. Since she seems less influenced by the GOP than other candidates might be, it make sme wonder. Not thrilled with creationism at all.

OTOH, there was some talk about her going up against big oil and it's referred to here too, so I need to read up and find out specifics on that one.

The beauty queen remark--I had to read that three times to make sure I'd read that correctly. I mean, wow. Just wow.

(Deleted comment)
I hated the fact that the first bits of info about her that everyone latched onto were personal and had no bearing on her politicial experience or issue position. You had to sort through all the beauty queen nonsense to find out where she stands on issues. And to me anyway, it's the issues that are important.

I want to let out a big hoorah that there is a woman on the ballot for Vice President because that is an accomplishment. And whether or not she's ever sworn in as VP this is, in my opinion, a step forward for women regardless.

On the other hand as an extremely liberal Democrat I hope that she and McCain are never sworn in. Her conservative position is practically the antithesis of my own political beliefs.

Politics and religion- arguments and hurt feelings over them have broken up families and friendships time after time. I wish folks could talk about them, debate them, and heck, even argue about them without turning things ugly and personal.

I hope you don't see a friend exodus over all this.

God yes. Why the personal? Her politics were *plenty* to give us food for thought and protest. Gilding the lily with her sex and gender? Not necessary.

Argh. I was kind of torn about the whole thing. The guy I liked was white and male, but I liked him because he was practical. He was a gov. and at the advice of this cops gave illegal immigrants driver licenses. With Obama vs. Clinton it was more a case of with him I'm worried that we'll have a repeat of the problems that Carter's inexperience brought. With her it's more complicated. I think Bill became prez because she wanted it. I don't really know _why_ my gut feelings about her are tweaking against here! So frustrating.

This other gal, never heard of her.

*nods* Yeah. Palin's ideology is very questionable to me.