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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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style stockholm syndrome
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
I've been thinking on whether to post this or not, but because I'm me, and because I ended up tagging for it, and because it exists, what the heck.



Starting the last week in June to now, I've read 364 Due South.

95 first.person
7 not.applicable
1 omniscient.person
3 second.person
258 third.person

I'm getting 26 percent first person or thereabouts. To me, that's fairly cool because at some point this last week it went invisible; I didn't notice it and didn't remember to tag for it after reading and had to go back and look it up manually.



The thing that makes me vaguely uncertain is that my reading is highly slanted toward authors that I already know, and specifically, a group of authors I already know (and seriously, Ces makes like one eighth of my total reading; that's a hell of a curve). I read associatively and by rec page by the following priority: a.) people I know from SGA to b.) people I know from SV to c.) people who had fic I liked a lot in other fandoms to d.) rec lists to e.) things people throw at me in livejournal entries that involve kittens and help ease the pain of the loss of Handy, which I may never recover from.

House Style

You know, despite the fact I am not running a strange fannish social experiment (honestly, I am always and forever into this for the porn), I did want to share this.

I wrote a fic last week and haven't posted for dS when I was around one hundred something stories in. This was--hmm. Actually, closer to ten days ago. This weekend, however, I started writing something else, just for myself to work on voice, since pure dialogue entertains me. Ran into a problem I'm not sure I've ever run into before, and by that, I mean, not unless I've been deliberately working on something that's against what I usually write and need to adjust back.

This weekend, I couldn't remember how to write third person limited in a way that was actually readable.

It took me a couple of hours to figure out why my rhythm was off. And it was off, and not just off, but badfic level sentence structure nightmare off, weird loss of single point of view off. At a glance, it looked a mess. At not a glance and spending time trying to repair, I realized I was trying to write past tense first person instead and kept correcting myself to present while writing. I mean, that's the only explanation I can work out. The problem wasn't even the story--it was all in present with correction. But I wrote it like someone who wrote it in past tense first and then went through and changed the verbs and pronouns only, which to be honest, is pretty much what I was doing even if I wasn't aware of it. And I wasn't thinking in present at all; I was thinking in past. And there is, at least for me, a dramatically different way I visualize and construct a scene, much less write it, depending on tense.

Personally, I have no idea whether to find this hilarious or disturbing. I know as of this last week for the Doctor Who and the other dS fic, I was not doing that. But as of Sunday afternoon, I was and I'm still not entirely adjusted back.

I really want to call this fannish Stockholm Syndrome. Or Fangirl Borg? I have no idea. It's very cool in a very strange way. On one hand, I haven't changed my default style since SV and at least part of that change was deliberate (and when ClarkLex had that person come in to complain about present tense, I might have decided that God as my witness, I will never write past tense again or something). On the other, that change wasn't entirely conscious either; part of the reason I picked up third/present was that most of my reading was in that tense (aka thete1 et al) and it was, in some ways, easier to match what I was reading than it was to try to work against it.


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I have had this happen to me recently as well. Where I find myself slipping into present tense and then have to bitch slap myself back into the tense I was using. And I think it's because you get so into the story that you FEEL like it's happening right there and then. I've actually changed the tense on pieces when I find that happening incessantly. It says to me that the piece demands that tense and why in the hell are you fighting it, woman? You got to listen to the writing voodoo.

Writing is voodoo. I feel like I should be leaving offerings somewhere.

And I wasn't thinking in present at all; I was thinking in past. And there is, at least for me, a dramatically different way I visualize and construct a scene, much less write it, depending on tense.

Oh, god, yes. That's annoying as all hell and requires such a rewrite. It's the biggest issue when I've got a few wips going at once and I'm recording sections of each on my drive to work: remembering the damn tense. There's nothing like getting to the weekend, typing up the 30 minutes of recorded fic and then having to go through and rework it because it's the wrong tense and sentences just don't work well like that.

I think it's Fannish Osmosis. We're writers, but we're readers: we read to enjoy, for the pleasure of sharing porn and beloved characters, and it simply sinks into our brains.

Mind you, I find that fandoms require different styles. TW is present tense (easier for action, easier for porn) limited-third person. Jeeves&Wooster is past tense, first person, outmoded lingo that matches the style of the novels. SN was mainly past tense for me (3rd person), while SV and SGA are a fair mix, I think.

It's just writing vogues -- things that are in fashion, that are everywhere, sink in without your knowledge.

There's nothing like getting to the weekend, typing up the 30 minutes of recorded fic and then having to go through and rework it because it's the wrong tense and sentences just don't work well like that.

God yes. It's diametrically differnet in how you *see* it. Yes.

I think it's Fannish Osmosis. We're writers, but we're readers: we read to enjoy, for the pleasure of sharing porn and beloved characters, and it simply sinks into our brains.

*g* It *is*. Now, though, I'm a lot more aware how limited my reading is by style if this feels so different.

I find that fandoms require different styles.

I find this absolutely to be true. When I was writing Renault fic, it was all past tense and a lot more...flowery than I would normally be, because I was trying to match her style. Same with LotR. Past tense, mostly, more descriptive, less bantery, etc.

What is "not applicable"? I mean, there has to be some narrative voice in a story, no? Unless it's script format? Poems? All dialogue? *is confused*

All dialogue, correspondence, or documentation based.

BTW, thanks to your OCD spreading meta posts I now tag for POV (both grammatical and character) and tense, and while my current reading in SGA and SPN is almost all 3rd person, there is still more past than present tense (47 past to 33 present since I started) in my current tally.

*g* I live to spread the joy.

Now I want to tag for tense, though. *eyes log thoughtfully*

You don't already? You planted that idea with me! Do you at least tag for pov character so that you can tell us whether stories from Fraser's, RayV's or RayK's pov are most popular?

No! NOW I WANT TO ON BOTH.

I do tag for either single.narrator or multiple.narrator, though.

I love the idea of fannish Stockholm syndrome...or maybe Borg's better, more of a community crossinfluence than a unidirectional...

And i'm now visualizing this multidimensional rhizome or something...with you stuck in the middle :)

I often think of fandom fondly as the place that taught me effective googling techniques, how to find impossible math problems, and how to wikipedia for context.

Rhizome, for example. I*g* I hadn't thought of fandom as string theory and ginger's illegitimate test tube baby, but it's a weirdly addictive thought when considering fannish influence at any given time is so multifactored.

one of these days, we're gonna have to create an EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN FANDOM.

probably as a collectively authored wiki, because...

It would be like the strangest knowledge list ever. Can converse knowledgeably on lube varieties and substitutions, knows astrophysics theory pre 2005, can find a thousand obscure Arctic towns on a map, knows the type of indigenous wolves in three different states and the type of knife to use during a space battle due to decompression problems. Also can Venn diagram anything.

Like a resumee, even. A very weird one, where someone can say they read teh Kama Sutra for the articles and be totally truthful.


LOL!!!

--LastScorpion--

(Deleted comment)
Yes, and no, not in the same way and not with the same kind of problems attached. And even then, I'm not sure I change styles so much as vaguely modify what I'm using now, if that makes sense.

You could say the tense change was deliberate and then call it Literature. *g* In Tolstoy's "The Kreutzer Sonata" a fellow on a train relates a disturbing story from his past - he begins to switch back and forth from past to present tense as he gets closer to the critical event (and as the train gets closer to its destination) - the story feels as if it's speeding up, like a kind of literary Doppler Effect.

Fandom has been *so* useful to me. The other day I was stopped in the street by two Canadian sailors looking for directions to a restaurant - I was all, Eeeeeee! Canadian navy!! One was from Halifax and the other from a little town in Alberta and they were surprised to hear that I knew the difference. I could have gone on the tell them exactly when Nunavut was named a Territory, but I thought that would be bragging.

...due south ate your tense shift.

It hates me and wants me to die without crossing it with Jack the Ripper.

Hmm. That sentence sounded far more logical in my head.

What no Seconds?
not.applicable Huh?

Seconds?

not.applicable is dialogue only or non-pov stories.

Seconds - second person...

non-pov
For a split second I couldn't figure out what that meant and then I realised I've actually written things that fit that definition *facepalm*

There's three second person pov's listed.

Heh. It's hard to remmeber.

I have *no* idea how I skipped past those and didn't notice *facepalms some more*

I have been confronted with snippets of my fic before and not recognised them - it's embarrassing in the extreme but I know it happens to just about everyone *g*

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