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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation

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lethargy is defined by this
better than cookies
Lethargy shouldn't be combined with suddenly wanting to turn one's reading log into a statistical sampling, but I was fixing my tags by month (the thing is, I used to have this sucker sorted by *day*, that is how anal I was) and wondered if creating a tag for pov would be *that* bad of an idea. Just so I know. And then create a flowchart on how I got where to what fic when and how, which is kind of crazy, and then realized I was picking out colors for the Venn diagram and closed everything before something weird happened.

I don't even know what to do with that but satisfy my vague curiosity if there *are* actually an overwhelming number of first person pov stories or if I feel that because in SGA, that's the unicorn of fictional points of view. It's just so uncommon; off the top of my head, I cannot think of a first person pov story I've read in the last year before Due South. In fact, to tell the truth, I can't remember the last time I read an experimental second person. And I can't remember a fic I read that had more than one narrator other than gen fic by miss_porcupine and ltlj. I know there were some--probably several. But I can't think of any that weren't exclusively third person limited, one narrator.

Also, I've never seen anyone anywhere pull off omniscient narrator without making me want to beat my head in before now. That was neat.

Hmm. I think part of my curiosity for dS is to see if it's actually *that* common because I used three specific rec pages to jump from one at a time, so for all intents and purposes, I'm going to hit a lot of *similar* fics, in that they all conform to the reccers taste and it's recent enough that I can still remember (and have in cache), how I went here or there. It's like a fannish migration pattern in miniature. It's especially true when hitting certain authors, weirdly enough--I'll read X author, remember she's really close to Y author, go to Y author to see if she wrote anything, check Z who was friends with Y, and keep going out until I run out of associations and return to the rec page (I run out of associations fast, btw).

Okay, so I am enthralled with really useless information, but it's kind of fascinating. I started logging July first, five days after starting to *read the fic* and had to retroactively add in the June ones. Going backward through them is kind of dizzying.

Overthinking useless things == totally my thing.

There are a ton--A TON--of first person POV stories in Bandslash. I have a hard time with first person; maybe because it feels too self-insertive to me, sometimes, or maybe because many times the 'voice' the author uses doesn't match the character in my head. Either way, I stopped reading bandslash a while ago (except for a few favorite authors) and that's one of the reasons why.

I honestly must be reading in a different part of Due South than you are, because I've been on a reading binge for days in DS now, and haven't hit a single first-person story!

See! That's why I think it was associative now--I'm just hitting a lot of authors that *do* do that, rather than a fandom trend. Because third person is invisible to me, so I *won't* notice the number of those; I'll notice what 's not.

It's very odd to me, but due South is the *only* fandom in which I do not immediately back-button when I find a first-person narrator. I don't know if it's just that RayK and Fraser have such unique and obvious "voices" that I can immediately tell who it is.

Yes, it is. It is *not* hard to tell who is speaking at all.

If you've read any of my novellas, then you've read more than one 3rd person POV from me. But not more than one 1st person narrator.

Hmm. This is really tempting me to tag now.

Gah, what have you done, now I have this urge to tag for POV. *curses*

...I might have just started that and my Venn Diagram of Migration.

*head on desk* Maybe I'll get bored with it soon?

Yeah, when I first started reading dS, it was a shock the number of first person POVs I came across. I shied away from for a while, but then I guess I just got used to them. To the point where I think I wrote one of them, myself!

Now, I'm on this SGA reading binge, and first person POVs are scary and odd all over again. Weird.

Huh. I used to write first person all the time, especially when I wrote X-Files or Voyager. Both Chakotay and Skinner would demand it - I would start with limited third (my preferred form from the beginning) from their POVs and be writing first before I finished the first page.

The only time I experimented with second person was a due South story - the story itself asked for it.

I haven't written first person in a long, long time...

I can remember writing first person POV in X-Files and I don't think it was ever remarked upon - either by me or readers. Perhaps it's something about the source material that makes it more acceptable.

Heh. This is fascinating. I've been thinking about POV a lot recently, because the fic I've just finished (in German) is in third person, but nowhere near the very tight third person that's become the standard for fic around here. And it somehow took me a while to get out of that frame of mind when I wanted to write something else - as if a part of me couldn't quite believe any more that any other way of writing was valid. Weird, but true.

The majority of what I write is 3rd person; usually limited or objective, but I've tried omniscent before - it's a bit harder to do and still make things sound right. This also appears to be the style of fic I prefer reading overall. I've read some of the others, but they just don't feel right. With a few exceptions in SGA, I've mainly seen 3rd person, but I wasn't sure if it was just that's what I remember, just what I found, or that I hit the back button on the others before finishing it. A lot of the 1st person fics almost seem like the author's fantasy of what it would be like to be Character X and if their voice/concept/feeling for the character doesn't match my own, I'm thrown out of the fic too much to enjoy it.

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You should see the diagram. I'm trying to work out if I went to crys from green-grrl's rec page or from bifictional bedlam by what stories came before or after. Also, apparently, I read on a wave pattern--I do like, *four waves* through a rec page and pick three or so fic per wave before browsing away for no particular reason.

This is like mapping clouds.

I'm always a bit bemused by the widespread dislike of first person POV in fandom, having entered fandom via literary mysteries, where the canons are often written in first person.

Perhaps I feel this way only because Holmes fandom (for example) has some very fine writers, but I've never noticed them having any more or less difficulty holding to their narrative voice in first person than those authors in other fandoms who work in third. In fact, first person voices often strikes me as truer to canon characterization than tight third person voices because the authors don't dare to get as lazy about the proper POV filtering during the description and exposition passages. Not that I'm too suprised to find myself in the minority on this question: mild to strong dislike of first person voice seems to be a literary fashion of our age

However, I do wonder if this indifference to voice is part of what's saved me from feeling the bump in the road moving from older to newer fandoms and back again? Usually, it's only what I think of as the changing philosophy of relationships and gender between older and newer fandoms that trip me up.

I'm not sure it's dislike so much as unfamiliarity. There was *huge* hostility in some quarters to present tense fic. Once you're used to it it's invisible and has a *lot* of flexibility. But if you're past-tense only, it can feel very jarring. When it became more widespread, it became invisible. I think it's almost a cause and effect situation--the less it's written, the less it's read, the more the readers lose familiarity with how to read it.

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In fact, to tell the truth, I can't remember the last time I read an experimental second person.

I'm finding out just now that it is ridiculously hard to find *any* 2nd person POV SGA fic, now that you made me curious. I didn't think it *that* rare, but I suspect that is because I've also read quite a bit SPN recently. With some browinsing I've only found *one* (by Frostfire) and that's from 2005 when the fandom was apparently still young enough to be experimental, maybe?

Why did you have to make me curious??

I cannot think of a first person pov story I've read in the last year before Due South. In fact, to tell the truth, I can't remember the last time I read an experimental second person. And I can't remember a fic I read that had more than one narrator other than gen fic

I'm cringing over here, because you just described, basically, my entire due South collection! *facepalm* Not just 1st person POV, but double-narrator 1st-person POV! It's a double whammy!

(Edited to close the goddamn tag.)

Edited at 2008-07-07 08:44 pm (UTC)

*giggles* So far, according to my tags, there's one first person pov for every three third-person point of view for all fics I've read. Interesting.

First person is incredibly common in Due South, much more so than in any other fandom I've ever read in. And it's strange because I can't read most first person fic in other fandoms, but in Due South I've read and enjoyed a ton of it.

AuKestrel did a whole ... *waves* thing on POV after some odd con conversations. But yeah, way more 1st in DS, I'd say--but they work.