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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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wednesdays start like this
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
Life, Universe, Much Less Than That

overheardfandom is up and running, mostly. This means be witty. Ironic puns also work. And post. It's not that I think everyone here exists for my entertainment...I'm sorry. I mean, I don't publicly admit I think everyone here exists for my personal entertainment. Totally different thing.

Unpopular Fannish Opinions of eleveninches keeps making me giggle inappropriately, mostly because my list is long and it starts with every peeve I have on Sheppard characterization and what passes for meta. That's one through fifty, so you see this would take several livejournal entries and possibly citations.

But a. I am no longer attempting to single-handedly stroke out before I see the next episode b. I have a sense of humor, really, and c. I have decided that no one out there is really commenting on my personality type and introversion every time they talk about the evils of repression.

See? Better. Really.

Tagging

I think I need to explain some of my less than clear tags. I'm thinking the slow creep of insanity and the eternal darkness of sloths are perhaps less descriptive of their content than one might think.

Unpopular Fannish Opinions

You know mine. Sheppard, Sheppard, Sheppard. Sheppard. Did I mention Sheppard?

But here are the others. Spoilers for season so far.



1.) Rodney/Ronon is my squick, which has surpassed every squick I ever had before. There is no way it can be written on earth or in the heavens, by God, by Gabriel, by the great Spaghetti monster, that I do not run screaming and sometimes literally. I support everyone's right to write whatever they want; yay, have a party! I reserve the right to hate it silently and twitch hard enough to dislocate something. I would not even like it if samdonne wrote it and I like everything she writes. I mean, that is where it is.

2.) I don't hate genderswitch? But a lot of it makes me uncomfortable with the odd objectification of a *concept*. I'm honestly not sure what the problem is; I can't even finger the difference between the ones I really loved and the ones that I couldn't read. Eventually, I will figure this out.

3.) John/Teyla ship is one of those that I can't see except in deeply depressing ways. I had this entire mental outline of this fic where after Rodney married Katie and Teyla's baby was born, John is totally infatuated with the baby and Teyla is lonely and thinks there are worse things than marrying your best friend who's totally in love with your kid, so they have this semi-platonic marriage that depresses me just thinking about it. There are Johnbabies! That was like, the only thing about it that didn't make me want to throw things. Seriously. It wasn't even angsty. It was just sad, with no end in sight. Except for the Johnbabies. And depending on my mood, Rodney's radiation-induced infertility (okay, keep in mind, unspoiled for that proposal. I was in a very irrational place.)

4.) John/Ronon is my semi-sekrit secondary pairing that I really can't read because so few of the stories are also comfortable with the John and Rodney friendship. thisisbone is the exception. I love John and Ronon friendship fic and there's just not nearly enough of that. There really should be.

5.) Slave fic, even the really awesome kind, I just cannot deal with on any level. Mostly because the use of power seems to be creepily skewed as an awesomely good thing and not, you know, dehumanizing and utterly, utterly wrong. Not many people come out of a world of sex trafficking as better people more in touch with their sexuality and wanting more submissive sex. Sometimes, they really don't come out of it at all.



And I'll continue this when I think of five more.


I have decided that no one out there is really commenting on my personality type and introversion every time they talk about the evils of repression.

You are only allowed to jump to this conclusion when fanon decides that Sheppard spends his time building giant cheeze arches.

...

OK, now I want the story where Aliens Make Them Build A Giant Cheeze Arch. Or where they're trapped, see, and the only way to get out is to make a cheeze bridge to escape. But you'll notice that Sheppard keeps trying to get the cheeze to *fly*. Or explode.

John's an engineer at heart. He'd love cheese arches. He'd make new and exciting inroads in cheese arches.

Also, I am likely to reverse my stance on commentary at any given moment. Or after the next time someone links me to meta that causes short term amnesia.

RODNEY/RONON 4EVA! WHERE RONON TURNS INTO A GIRL AND THEN RODNEY IS A SLAVE. AND JOHN EXPLODES FROM ALL OF HIS REPRESSION (OR AN EXPLODING TUMOR) AND IS JUDGED BY EVERYBODY AT HIS FUNERAL!

I am going to dedicate my John/Ronon to you.

*narrowed eyes*

I am TOTALLY commenting on you with EVERY THOUGHT I have about Sheppard.

Oh look,
Jenn
John is inappropriately fond of his semi automatic weapon.

mmmmweapons.

Wait. Was that an insult?

Not into Rodney/Ronon either.

I'm so loyal to my OTP's though, reading them with anyone else makes me shiver in that not good way.

*nods* Oh yeah. I totally am behind you on that one.

(Deleted comment)
I'm not kidding about the depressing either. Just thinking about it makes me want to drink.

1) I would not even like it if samdonne wrote it and I like everything she writes. I mean, that is where it is.

Now in some universes that would be akin to wagging a prime angus burger in front of a starving Rottweiler. However, my unpopular fannish opinion is that, while I can conceive of Rodney McKay and carnal relations in the same sentence for the sake of being able to read, well, anything in this fandom, I can't bear to picture it, shall we say, with the degree of intimacy required to write it.

So you are quite safe, as far as that goes.

2) Is such a philosophical, psychological, and sexual turn off I can't even describe it. Though nowhere close to slavefic. I can't even read the summary of a slavefic. Sexual or otherwise. (As I get older, if not wiser, I'm even losing the ability to read most flavors of BDSM.)

Suffering and humiliation don't teach people anything. It doesn't make them wiser, happier, or better humans. And even if it did, it wouldn't be worth it.

3) I can see John/Teyla, though have yet to enjoy reading it. The main reason I haven't written it, I think, is that I like the friendship more. Though if I could write sex into it and keep the relationship intact, or move it beyond the reductive dichotomy of friends/romantic partners, I totally would.

4) Yes.

5) See 2) above.

However, my unpopular fannish opinion is that, while I can conceive of Rodney McKay and carnal relations in the same sentence for the sake of being able to read, well, anything in this fandom, I can't bear to picture it, shall we say, with the degree of intimacy required to write it.

So you are quite safe, as far as that goes.


And the bullet is dodged.

I can see John/Teyla, though have yet to enjoy reading it. The main reason I haven't written it, I think, is that I like the friendship more. Though if I could write sex into it and keep the relationship intact, or move it beyond the reductive dichotomy of friends/romantic partners, I totally would.

I have yet to find one that convinces me outside a theoretical idea of I would find it plausible.

Is such a philosophical, psychological, and sexual turn off I can't even describe it. Though nowhere close to slavefic. I can't even read the summary of a slavefic. Sexual or otherwise. (As I get older, if not wiser, I'm even losing the ability to read most flavors of BDSM.)

Pretty much yes. I'm deleting fic from two fandoms back with the theme at this point that at the time I loved and now, not so much.

So, I adore Ronon, okay? And I read pretty much any gen-style fic that has him in it. (I also admit to occasionally reading Ronon/Rodney. I'M SO SORRY.) I also thoroughly enjoy fic that involves John.

Yet I can't - CAN'T - read Ronon/John. I feel like every John/Ronon fic out there is so totally weighed down with emo!angst that it brings me to tears (in the bored way, and not the saddened way). Like for some reason, when writers put those two guys together, all the fun is sucked out forever. John is emotionally repressed! Ronon was a Runner who needs the love of a taskmaster! Ronon is emotionally scarred! John doesn't know how to talk to him about it because he is EMOTIONALLY REPRESSED! Also, his father never loved him.

Gen fic with the two of them as friends/team members is usually for the yay, but slash them, and I will look away so quickly that I will give myself whiplash. I feel like this should be a totally awesome pairing, but nobody seems to be able to write it. What's up with that?

(I also admit to occasionally reading Ronon/Rodney. I'M SO SORRY.) I also thoroughly enjoy fic that involves John.

Just plz never rec it to me. I am startled by the number of times someone recs one to me and there's no really subtle or classy way to say GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN while running, you know?

Gen fic with the two of them as friends/team members is usually for the yay, but slash them, and I will look away so quickly that I will give myself whiplash. I feel like this should be a totally awesome pairing, but nobody seems to be able to write it. What's up with that?

I've liked a very, very, very few I've seen, so it's a mystery.

RONON/RODNEY OTP. WITH FOOD.

Yikes--that anonymous comment was mine. I always forget that my work computer logs me out continually.

1. I don't think I've ever, ever had a pairing I believe less. I believe it so little it isn't even a squick. It's way too outside my view of the show to even make any kind of even negative sense to my brain. I consider knowing that an author writes Rodney/Ronon a happy warning. Clearly if they see those two together, they aren't seeing the characters as I do in any way whatsoever so I can steer clear of anything else they write, regardless of pairing. Not in a criticism way, just in a way that lets me know they're into totally different things than I am writings wise and that's cool but I'd best just look elsewhere for stuff I want to read.

2. I can like genderswitch if the character started out as the opposite gender in an AU type of way. That lets you explore how gender influences character development. I don't like it if the character just woke up one day as the opposite gender. It runs up into my reality fetish. If I woke up with a peen, I'd be traumatized, despite my general like of it on other people. So I just can't think a man having to experience period cramps for the first time is wacky hijincks.

3. I'd actually love if someone wrote John/Teyla as a pair of people who were good friends and found a level of satisfying physical intimacy with someone else without being totally in love with each other. I think, given their personalities, that both of them would find that kind of relationship fulfilling and supportive without being restrictive. And it would just showcase a different kind of love. The idea of them permanently being together in a warm but not intense relationship actually makes me pretty happy.

4. I love, love, love John/Ronon, but I also don't find it written the way I see them too often. There's too much angst. I think they're kind of perfect for each other really, and intuitive enough to recognize that when they'd have it. One of the reasons bone's stuff works for me is that there's a real lack of drama and just a solid relationship that they negotiate without histrionics. There's a lovely bit of quiet longing to her Ronon, but he finds what he needs in Sheppard pretty quickly and without either of them having to talk about it.

Edited at 2008-02-06 06:06 pm (UTC)

I agree with everything. *G* But you already know that.

(PS NUMBER FOUR MIGHT BE DONE SOON!)

1.) Rodney/Ronon is my squick, which has surpassed every squick I ever had before. There is no way it can be written on earth or in the heavens, by God, by Gabriel, by the great Spaghetti monster, that I do not run screaming and sometimes literally. I support everyone's right to write whatever they want; yay, have a party! I reserve the right to hate it silently and twitch hard enough to dislocate something. I would not even like it if samdonne wrote it and I like everything she writes. I mean, that is where it is.


Unpopular Fannish Opinions

OMG!!! For real? I have a hard time seeing Rodney at all as a sexual/sensual partner to ANYONE.

My unpopular fannish opinion is that there is never enough hookerfic. Or drug addict fic. Why isn't fandom catering to MY needs, eh?

I like stories with sexual power play, but only the kind where it is *play* with fairly equal partners who both consent.

There have been very few mpreg stories I've been able to finish. And I don't think I've ever recommended one. I know I've recced a few genderswap/fuck/switch stories, but they are rare exceptions.

I, too, am sad at the lack of hookerfic.

ta-dah! (Anonymous) Expand
Oooh, I'm so there with you on 2.

I can't say I've enjoyed John/Teyla or John/Ronon (unless it was in an OT4 story), because I'm too OTP-ish. *adjusts tinhat*

And now, in total contradiction of what I just said above: I, um, sometimes enjoy Rodney/Ronon. (Are you going to shun me forever now?)

Not forever. Maybe like, half of that. Maybe.

You know mine. Sheppard, Sheppard, Sheppard. Sheppard. Did I mention Sheppard?

100% with you on that.

1.) Rodney/Ronon is my squick

Heh. I think RONON is my squick - I don't want to imagine him having sex, like, EVER, regardless with whom.

2.) I don't hate genderswitch? But a lot of it makes me uncomfortable with the odd objectification of a *concept*.

Genderfuck often makes me uncomfortable, but I love the concept of it, and when it's well written it can be a thing of beauty. I especially hate it when it's played for laughs, and when it seems to perpetuate certain gender stereotypes, though.

3.) John/Teyla ship is one of those that I can't see except in deeply depressing ways.

That ship leaves me completely and utterly cold. It's not that I have anything against it in any way, unlike some other ships - I'm just thoroughly and completely meh. Whatever.

4.) John/Ronon

See #1.

5.) Slave fic, even the really awesome kind, I just cannot deal with on any level.

For me, it depends on who is cast in what role. But that ties in with the Sheppard thing again, so best not to go there. *shudders*

Oh, and my own unpopular opinion: Judging by the characterisation, 99% of even the most widely recced fic might as well have been written by people who haven't even seen the show.

I agree with everything here, except slavefic doesn't bother me. Because I've found it's either really, really terrible and I can't take its seriously, or it's really, really good and the authors don't write it in a way that squicks me. (Unless you're talking d/S slave relationship, which is a totally different thing and not my cup of tea at all.)

1 - I have read very few Ronon/Rodney fics that work, and most are actually OT3 or OT4. It's like they need an extra person to be able to relate to each other.

2 - I am guilty of writing genderfuck fic, but it was a) on a dare, and b) set up as an AU where everyone from Earth was switched an born that way. It was actually kind of fun to play on how their personalities might be different if they were born and raised opposite of cannon.

3 - John/Teyla ship has the chance to get really sappy really quickly. We're talking about someone who can barely hug her in cannon, and looks awkward as hell when he finally does it. To make it work, the characterizations are often butchered. That said, I have seen OT3 or OT4 fics that kinda of work with them because of the same reason mentioned above: they need a go between.

4 - John/Ronon can either work well, or fail miserably. When it's about strength and the more primal aspects, it tends to work. When it's about them getting all hung up on their emotional baggage, it fails. I think it's a characterization thing again though, because they don't act anything near that way in the show, so it's hard to see it in fic.

5 - Slave fic usually doesn't work for me, especially if it's done super seriously. If it's done in the "he makes a terrible slave" and played for laughs with no actual brutality, I might read it though. [small voice - or write it...]

For me, the biggest thing is the Super Emotional Tragic Woobie fics. Suddenly a character just can't function and are contemplating suicide because their lover parted his hair on the other side or some shit like that.

The second big thing is Injury Sex. If you broke their arm one scene before, they probably are not going to like to be held down and fucked. Minor injuries, like scrapes and bruises, are fine. Broken bones, damaged spleens and rough sex just do not play well together.

Final "big" thing: "Please be kind because this is my first fic and I didn't have a beta and I don't believe in grammar lessons or spellcheck and I've never really watched the show, just heard about it and I want positive feedback only or else I will flame you." Pretty much explains itself. :)


OH man, for the last one, my favorite one ever (I totally quote it on my lj main page):

If you don't send me feedback, I will sob uncontrollably for hours on end, until finally, in a fit of depression, I slash my wrists and bleed out on the bathroom floor. My death will be on your heads. Murderers.

(It was a parody, but when I first saw it, I actually, horrifying, didn't think it was impossible for someone to post)