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people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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question for spn people
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
SPN question, for those who watch and have internalized the canon more than I have. Beneath cut, because hey, it's a tad gruesome.



Okay, so you do the salt-and-burn on bodies when trying ot get rid of the ghosts. Let's say we're working with a lot of corpses who died through supernatural violence. Really violently. Would salting the bodies then blowing them up work the same way? There are a lot, and there's really not time to do it one at a time.

Or am i missing a key bit of canon there? I rewatched the one ep I could remmeber them getting rid of a corpse, and this *seems* right, but I could be wrong.
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Salting stops the spirit leaving the body and burning them releases/disposes of the ghost or demon, so I guess blowing them up would work. But, you know, it's about ghosts, therefore it's fiction, therefore you can make everything up anyway.

Well, yes, but I want to follow the canon of the show as much as possible, at least technically.

your icon slays.

Also, seperis, I would second the blowing them up being fine -- in some cases on the show, just burning the remains has worked, and more than that I think it is totally just what Dean and Sam would do in a pinch. *grins*

Er, to clarify, just burning without the salting has worked, so I don't think it's super rigid or anything.

Hey, any time I can work in a nice explosion is a good day. I kept looking at the eps, but I kept thinking I'd missed one where they went into detail why it would work this way in particular.

Thanks very much.

yeah, that would work, as long as the bodies were destroyed/burned in the explosion.

That would probably work, so long as the bones were burned in the explosion.

*points at your icon and giggles*

Maybe try to set up the blast so the force is directed inward, toward the bodies? More of an implosion? Depending on the location of the ceremony (maybe indoors?), that could work.

Also, accelerants are your friend when attempting any sort of explosion to fire reaction.

Hmm. If they dont' use gasoline, what would be a good accelerant? I'm assuing C4 would be enough to bring about serious destruction, but if they really want to break the bodies down as much as possible...

Hmm. Would just any oil do it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerant

"Many accelerants are hydrocarbon-based fuels, sometimes referred to as petroleum distilates: gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, turpentine, butane, and various other flammable solvents. "

I know if you're a serious arsonist, you use kerosene instead of gasoline, although I can't remember why. Maybe they have to scrounge around for something suitable? (Given the scarcity conditions, *I* wouldn't use gasoline for fire purposes; it's too valuable as fuel).

Times like these are when I think having a copy of The Anarchist's Cookbook around would be handy. Except then I think of having to explain to the authorities that no, really, it was for *research*.

Hmm. I have a friend who had a copy of that on disc. That would probably be the best source.

Yes, that's why I decided against gasoline. I'm just wondering if kerosene is going to be all that abundant anymore either and if they would use it for this or save it. Hmm.

*hugs you* Thanks. I'm reading wiki now.

I think it's a matter of not having any of the body left for the spirit to have an attachment to. So salting, as said above would stop the spirit from leaving the body, and burning would leave no attachment for the spirit. I don't know if having a hand left would mean an evil hand spirit wandering about the place :/

I don't know if they've actually gotten into the specifics of the burning part besides what cobweb_diamond already said.

I've always assumed that burning was to destroy as much of the body as possible--essentially burn it down to small fragments and ash. (To leave nothing sizeable enought behind for the spririt to hang on to.) I can't point to anything particular on the show to support that, though. I'm not even sure that a regular fire using gasoline could get hot enough to do that.

So, if the purpose was to get small fragments/ash, I guess the question would be whether whatever explosive you used would be enough to make a lot of corpses explode into teeny, tiny pieces vs bigger lumps. (And, wow, that is a bit gruesome to talk about, huh?)

I don't have a definitive answer for you, though. My assumption could be completely wrong. It will be interesting to see what other people say.

It'll work as long as the bodies are salted first and then burned during the explosion: burning is the key factor there, how is not so important

I can't imagine the point of burning is to destroy the bones/corpse--it takes extremely high temperatures to burn away human flesh completely and even then crematories have to grind the bones that are left to turn them into ash. It's why a person's ashes often have somewhat larger chunks of bone in them.

So the burning has got to be symbolic, not practical. Fire is often used in cleansing rituals--off the top of my head, I know of a New Year's ceremony wherein you write down all your baggage from the previous year and burn it to free yourself of it--so I'd guess that the fire burns away the ghost's attachment to the bones.

That said, I can pretty much picture Dean and Sam blowing shit up as the quick way to deal with a bunch of corpses/bones.

Possibly the wiki article on Cremation will be helpful?

Specifically: A cremation furnace is a industrial furnace capable of reaching high temperatures up to approximately 1600-1800 °F (870-980 °C) with special modifications to ensure the efficient disintegration of the corpse. One of these modifications is the aiming of the flames at the corpse's torso, where a majority of the corpse's mass rests. Emphasis mine.

There's also some stuff on the various religious reasons for and against cremation. Hinduism apparently favours the pyre and destruction of the corpse by fire over ground-burial because the destruction is thought to induce a feeling of detachment in the disembodied spirit, which encourages it pass on to the next world.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.

Dean would adore blowing things up.

Did someone say Anarchists Cookbook or at least an online version there of. Maybe some fertilizer bombs. Requires diesel fuel but just enough to soak cotton. And maybe for remote ignition a generic bomb(small amount of gas, glass jar, and potassium permanganate from a snake bite kit)placed strategically with several fertilizers, get to a safe distance, shoot the generic, ignition. Boom. Would that work? I don't know, but it sounds cool :)

I think you should go for a flamethrower. Somehow, I think Dean would enjoy that.

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I think blowing them up would work.

There was one case (1x19, Provenance) where they salted and burned the body but that didn't get rid of the spirit because there was still a doll with the girl's real hair out there. But that was a special case and, I think, had a lot to do with the fact that the doll was made in her image AND used her real hair (and, also was buried in the family tomb. fucking creepy).

Which is a long way of saying: blow them up! Dean will love it.

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