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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation

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sgareview - the return, s3e10
children of dune - leto 1
Because I cannot write John's new deification without, you know, watching The Return again and it was hard, you know, *hard*, but I sacrifice myself like that for fandom.


Are we really sure that the badly dressed cream ensemble of maximum ickiness people are actually Replicators? Cause I would totally not put it past the Ancients to beat the reps, then like, kill Voyager's Doctor--or whoever he is now, seriously, like I keep up with names--or lock him and Jack up. Those were not cool Ancients.

It begs the question if there *were* any cool Ancients. Have we met one that didn't have issues?

Sidenote: If there is anything hotter in the universe than John and co in their adorable black ops drag, then I do not want to know what it is. Rodney armed is always enough to stop me breathing. John shooting things is really good buttercream chocolate icing with hot fudge sauce on teh cake. Jesus. How did I get through this ep the first time without a coronary?

Carry on. I'm on my second dose of Tylenol Sinus Severe and Sudafed 12 Hour, which is such false advertising I am amazed they exist in the same space-time continuum as I do. Colors *pretty*.

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Actually-- I think the ancients are no better than the humans. Possibly with an extra dose of arrogance thrown in. They're not as pretty as tehy were painted.

Someone needs to slip Thor something to get the good dirt on their old trading buddies.

I'm kind of glad that the writers have decided to go with the "Ancients: Awesomely powerful, worship worthy, Seeders of Ten Thousand Worlds, utter bastards."

It makes things more...hm...grey? Or heck, we could just throw in the rainbow at this point...

I don't even know what the writers are doing with the Ancients anymore. It's like...they still want them to be all cool and nifty, but keep writing them as assholes.

I'm willing to bet they were Replicators though, because they got past the Ancients' defences, and the Ancients (as seen in their battle with the Wraith) suck when they meet an equal force. They need to stop down their enemies before those enemies can get to their level. Which they don't do, because the Ancients' arrogance seems to prevent them from seeing anything else as being capable of approaching their level.

I was never 100% as to whether or not they were Replicators, it's just fanon at this point...there just happens to be a lot of coincidences involved that make people think it's so.

Though, I'm still in a huge state of bitterness over the fact they didn't pay more attention to John and his throwback genes ::pout::

I believe you you shall distinguish them by the hair: a perfect quiff, pompadour or something equally silly looking but still sparkling: Replicator

Slightly harrassed ridiculous hairstyle (Gladiator to Charlie's Angels), blondish going to grey, like you'd sport if you knew you were late for a date, say 10.000 years?): Ancients

Heh! There are so many ways the whole thing could go. I've been thinking that the shipful of Ancients could have been Replicators from the start. (But then, in SG-1, TPTB trained us not to trust the Helia actress.)

But yeah, Ancients have been tricky forever. Oma the Ascended Ancient (yes, I am singing that to the tune of Rudolph), was good in some ways, but also incredibly remote and unhelpful and maddeningly cryptic. SG-1 unfroze an Ancient women in Antarctica who unknowingly unleashed a virus on them, but she nicely gave her life to heal them before she succumbed herself. Hmm -- she might be the only nice Ancient they've shown.

Oh, and IOA dude is named Woolsey -- easy to remember because he pretty much makes everyone itch, not just the Ancients. ;-)

Ronon hug + that phone call + SG:A in black + wee turtles + JACK = The Return orgasms

I was expectin the ancients to be evil for so long that I'm still unconsciously uncertain whether they are....and i'm glad you sacrificed yourself for fandom! I? i just ffwd to the good bits :-)

Is it wrong that I want them to be real ancients so the repliancients can come kill their asses? ::whistles:: Course I wants Jack to be okay and all joining forces with John and Rodney. *grins* But yeah ::nods:: I want the ancients to get their asses handed to them by just one of their many mistakes. :P

Are we really sure that the badly dressed cream ensemble of maximum ickiness people are actually Replicators?

This was my first thought. Like, maybe, they're different replicators from before and these don't even know they're replicators -- I may have seen too much bsg lately -- but I have sga evidence! Like, their supposed stasis pods. Because I get having someone keep watch, but would she really be that young and pretty after keeping watch for centuries? Even if they take turns -- age should've occured. Ten thousand year old Elizabeth wasn't exactly young and spritely.

I'm kind of glad the ancients are assholes, though. Like all parents -- cool and all knowing until you're an adult and actually living with them instead of being a child in their house and you realize how massively fucked up they are.

after keeping watch for centuries?

Rodney says at the beginning of the ep that due to the speeds they were traveling at, Helia's Ancients would have experienced a relatively slow passage of time, on the order of a decade. That's also why they assume the ship isn't replicators, because they can apparently tell that its been in transit (and out of communication) for the last 10,000 years (didn't really follow that logic, but that's what they say).

I remember that, and it still makes no sense to me.

Er, not you -- just science and logic and the batshit versions of both that the sg writing team has basterdized for their purposes.


I still say they're replicators, though :)

I get having someone keep watch, but would she really be that young and pretty after keeping watch for centuries? Even if they take turns -- age should've occured. Ten thousand year old Elizabeth wasn't exactly young and spritely.

Time dilation: their ship's hyperdrive probably would have gotten them to the Milky Way in 18 days or less; when it broke halfway, they proceeded at such vast sublight speed that only a few years passed over the ten thousand of objective travel time. There's also conflicting info about the rate at which the Ancients age: the ones in "Aurora" seemed to age as humans, the ones who returned to Earth in 8,000 B.C. lived thousands of years before ascending, and the one left behind in Antarctica survived millions of years in a block of ice before the SG folks thawed her out.

We are indeed that you are willing to take on such sacrifices for fandom. Your commitment to the cause knows no bounds, it seems.

Everyone was hot in this episode. John ninja-ing (it is so a verb) around shooting people with zats in a sexy black ensemble? There is absolutely no way to improve that image. If they'd let him do that every episode and maybe spice it up every once in awhile by letting him kill someone with a knife, they could do whatever the hell the wanted, plot wise, and I'd consider myself well served. My standards are not high.

I'm holding out for his shirt to come off. Or more with the semi-transparent desert BDUs. I have standards! He's not Kirk unless his shirt gets ripped off him!

Oh I'll certainly not object if the writers decide to raise the bar and throw some inexplicable nudity into the equation. Hasselhof has to be a Goa'uld in that universe, right? Maybe they could just go to Planet Baywatch and paddle around barely clothed for a few episodes. Ronon's been there before. He could show them the ropes. And if the writers are really feeling ambitions and want John to once again play the prissy, prissy princess and not get with the party until the raging natives tear his clothing off, I'll find a way to survive that, too.

I weep -- WEEP -- that in eight years of SG-1, Jack was topless three times, and two of those were the briefest possible glimpses. And his undercover gear? Giant bedouin robes. Then Cam joins the SGC, and suddenly the team's sporting skintight undercover rawhide every other mission and Cam's getting stripped down at every excuse. *wails*

Hmm. Perhaps SG:A needs a dose of Ben Browder costume karma...

I keep going back to the "decelerating at 27 Gs" bit. Because, yeah, okay, that's absolute, and the Ancients had artificial gravity, but that's *27 gravities*. Which I think is "oh, look, it's a ship full of strawberry jam on the forward bulkheads." And if the Ancient ships aren't built to accelerate/decelerate at that rate ...

I think the only decent Ancient I have seen on the show was the one from the sleep episode-Janus(?). (Though he did seem a little creepy to me what with his odd glee at meeting Weir and unending cheerfullness.)

I'm starting to vaguely suspect--thanks to the Ancients being increasingly shady--that the humans will probably end up fighting them as well as the Wraith. Or maybe fighting with the Wraith.

I don't think I'd mind that too terribly.

I'm fairly certain that the only nice ancients we've ever met are quasi-nice onese like Janus who are disapproved of and/or actively suppress by the rest, plus the captain of the Aurora. I, for one, suspect most of the nice ancients were the ones that stuck around trying to help humans long enough to get themselves killed (as in dead-dead, not Daniel-dead). I can see how it went:

Good!Honorable!Ancient Captain: This truce thing is a bad idea. I've seen Battlestar Galactica, I know how this ends.
IOA!Ancient Council: Shut up and follow orders.
GHA Captain: Look, just let us take the fleet and attack some Wraith worlds. And how about we arm the humans so we won't be outnumbers.
IOA: Shut up and follow orders!
GHA Captain: Whatever.
IOA: Well, clearly the captain was incompetent. All right, off to Earth now.

Wasn't the Ascended girl that John got all Kirk-y with an Ancient? She wasn't too bad. Although iirc outcast by the others...

Sidenote: If there is anything hotter in the universe than John and co in their adorable black ops drag, then I do not want to know what it is. Rodney armed is always enough to stop me breathing.

*deep happy breath* Indeed.

Rodney shooting things is pretty damn good too.

There was an Ancient on SG-1, who fell in love with Carter. I think his name was Orlin. He seemed pretty ok. Sadly, he decended in kid-form to help the earthlings and trying to hold on to all that Ancient Knowledge caused brain damage.

I think Helia and her crowd must be actual Ancients. The replicators wouldn't have any need to take Atlantis by subterfuge when they just want to blow it up with superior force anyway. And I can't imagine them going to the trouble of sending a fake Ancient ship out into the void to intercept the Daedalus (which would take a virtually omniscient feat of planning/timing). Also, Atlantis appeared to recognize the ATA gene within the newcomers, and immediately ceded full control.

Add to that: the assumption that their nannite creations would just roll over harmlessly is so very typical of Ancient arrogance that it read as absolutely true to me.

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