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people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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livejournals and mailing lists, take two
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
Okay, this is kind of weird thing to ask, but Minisinoo got me thinking in my earlier entry on the LJ/blog stuff.

Oh! Damn, before I wander any further, you have to read this.

Here lexluvsclark give us the Top Ten Reasons She Loves LJ. Totally rocks. ICONS! YES!

Okay, now to the boring stuff.

If this topic bores you to tears? Don't worry, I swear I'll stop jumping on the corpse of this horse really soon, as it's starting to make my shoes all gooey. You know. I'm all 'Oooh! Shiny!' girl.

Entire thread can be found here if you want to see how it developed.

minisinoo said:

Yes, I'm meandering. (g) But I wonder if the "birthplace" of various fandoms has to do with the strength of different avenues of communication within them? I can't really answer this much myself, being more of a "serial" fandom girl, but there might be others with more experience in a single fandom across a long period of time?

And I said:

I do think--and this is tentative, just from observation and discussion--that the time period a fandom began has a lot to do with its dominant form of communication. Smallville, for instance, exploded around the same time LJ use came into common usage, so the cause-and-effect there is kind of blurred. Part of it, definitely, was more SV fen moving into a convenient communication route, but a proportion of it seems to be from simple exposure--and I sometimes wonder if part of the spread of relentless multifandomness comes from that very LJ exposure, where your friends list isn't single-fandom, single pairing, selective, but often covers a variety of different people, different fandoms, etc.

Hmm. That could be an entry all in itself. The thing is, I'm not sure about the cause and effect, or which led to what? Were multifandom people more likely to go to LJ to get that easy variety that mailing lists couldnt' quite provide, or did the LJ community encourage more fen to try out other things?


And Min replied:

Now THAT would be a really interesting study, you know. :-) Have no idea how one would go about DOING it (or how anyone would have time ), but in terms of a sociological exploration ... yeah.

Oddly, a lot of this crystallized in chat for me Friday night with a variety of different fannish people all in the same chat room--chatting. Most of whom were either multifandom/multipairing/etc in either read/write or read-only. And the variety was surprising--most of us, if not all, were SV fans of some type, but proportionally, most of us weren't SV fans first and foremost. And it sort of made me wonder if there actually ARE boundaries anymore, or if the boundaries of fandom have become this incredibly flexible. Very cool, btw.

Honestly, I was thinking of polling LJ members just to get some simple results, but I have no idea how to even phrase the question for a proper poll. The gist is sort of twofold, but honestly, the input on the hows and whys is more important.

So. Here's my question.

Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes? Or just your writing? Or just your reading? Or is it that multifandom/multipairing/more open people were already attracted to LJ for that very multifandom vibe? Chicken or the egg, chicken or the egg, lalala.

And if you're not an LJ user but a lurker? Leap right in on this one. I think the variety of answers between LJ and non-LJ users would be interesting to see.

Delurk, in other words. As thdancingferret** put it, motivation, not force. *grins*

**edited to fix the username for thdancingferret, because I kept putting in the 'e' and for the life of me, could not figure out why it wouldn't work! *sighs*


Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes?

Hmm. Well, I'd certainly never written Stargate slash before I had a LJ. But then none of the people I'm friends with write Stargate slash, so I'm not entirely sure it's connected.

Still, I think it's fair to say: they egg me on when they really shouldn't {g}.

Hmm. Well, I'd certainly never written Stargate slash before I had a LJ. But then none of the people I'm friends with write Stargate slash, so I'm not entirely sure it's connected.

Still, I think it's fair to say: they egg me on when they really shouldn't {g}.


*giggles*

The bastards. Forcing you to write your usual fabulous fic and slashing those darn characters....

Hold it, this is supposed to be BAD? *g*

Hm. Just speaking for myself, my answer would probably be "None of the above." I'm not particularly polyfandom-ish as either a reader or writer, and LJ hasn't affected that one way or the other, really.

What it *has* done is made the whole question of "What fandom(s) are you in?" much less significant. Few of my postings or comments have anything to do with a particular fandom; they're about personal stuff (my own and others'), or general writing issues, or meta-topics (for lack of a better term). LJ has given me a way to connect with people I otherwise wouldn't have encountered, or people I knew in fandoms past and had lost track of, and to communicate enjoyably with them, despite the fact that I have no interest in their fannish flavor of the month nor they in mine. In my experience, people tend to cluster in LJ less on the basis of a shared interest in SV, say, and more on the basis of personalities, writing styles, life experiences, etc., that they find compatible or mutually interesting.

What it *has* done is made the whole question of "What fandom(s) are you in?" much less significant. Few of my postings or comments have anything to do with a particular fandom; they're about personal stuff (my own and others'), or general writing issues, or meta-topics (for lack of a better term). LJ has given me a way to connect with people I otherwise wouldn't have encountered, or people I knew in fandoms past and had lost track of, and to communicate enjoyably with them, despite the fact that I have no interest in their fannish flavor of the month nor they in mine. In my experience, people tend to cluster in LJ less on the basis of a shared interest in SV, say, and more on the basis of personalities, writing styles, life experiences, etc., that they find compatible or mutually interesting.

I think you're right in that--the way the breakdown occurs in LJland with how people cluster (and I like that word now!). Personally, while at the beginning, I biased toward already-friends or SV writers, I'm more likely to friend now because of the LJ of the person in question, not their fandom.

God, this is one of those days I wish I was a sociology major so I had the training to put this in the right context.

Thanks for commenting!

I followed some SV people here, and my friends list is heavily weighted toward SV.

But while I've been somewhat multi-fandom since my second fandom (it takes a good while for the older interests to die off), LJ seems to be keeping me more active or at least more aware of my 'secondary' fandoms.

But while I've been somewhat multi-fandom since my second fandom (it takes a good while for the older interests to die off), LJ seems to be keeping me more active or at least more aware of my 'secondary' fandoms.

*nods* It's been EXTREMELY fun to run across people in LJ that I knew two fandoms ago--taraljc, suzvoy for the two off the top of my head, find what they're doing. Almost like moving to a different town and running into old friends. Completely unexpected and endlessly fun.

Since I started slashing (spring 1998) I've been multi-fandom - usually reading in at least 3-4 main fandoms and sampling others as the impulse strikes. Since starting my LJ just over 2 years ago, I've been exposed to fandoms and people I might otherwise have missed, which has broadened my reading some, but not my multi-fandom status.

However, like katallison I primarily read journals because of the people - sometimes we share fandoms/pairings, sometimes we don't. I have non-slashers on my friends page, and many people into things (like LOTR) which interest me not at all. LJ is a good way to find new stuff, but more importantly to me, a great way to connect with individuals that the more 'old-school' mailing lists generally doesn't permit.

However, like katallison I primarily read journals because of the people - sometimes we share fandoms/pairings, sometimes we don't. I have non-slashers on my friends page, and many people into things (like LOTR) which interest me not at all. LJ is a good way to find new stuff, but more importantly to me, a great way to connect with individuals that the more 'old-school' mailing lists generally doesn't permit.

*nod* I definitely was thinking too narrow when I was mulling this idea.

Now I'm doubly interested to hear what people have to say about it.

Thanks for the comments!

The fannish zeitgeist strikes again...

Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes? Or just your writing? Or just your reading? Or is it that multifandom/multipairing/more open people were already attracted to LJ for that very multifandom vibe? Chicken or the egg, chicken or the egg, lalala.

I made a similar post a few weeks ago, but my short answer is probably: Chicken *and* Egg.

I suspect that the more mono-fannish someone is, the less likely they are to be interested in participating in the necessarily more multi-fannish kind of fandom that LJ is shaping. However, at the same time, LJ is making it so easy to check out other fandoms' stories or art or whatever (just click a link, and there you are!) and even to participate in other people's fandoms (via quickie drabble challenges or the recent crop of elf-challenge stories), that we all seem to be coming even more multi-fannish than we were when we came aboard LJ originally.

-Beth

Re: The fannish zeitgeist strikes again...

I was actualy thinking about that--the proliferation of multifandom or metafandom challenges--the elf one, the slashing the slashers, the remix for the RPS in general fandoms and the remix one for the FPS in general fandoms. The lines are blurring in interesting ways.

I haven't necessarily become write multifandom--in fact, I think I'm more into my fandom than I would be otherwise--but for reading or just looking over, I have gotten a--I suppose better exposure to not only fandoms I'd never interacted with--RPS for one--but also rare or small fandoms, like Ivy's Narnia stories.

And thanks for the link! Must read tonight. This subject is holding my attention a lot more than I expected.

First off, my LJ is ALL YOUR FAULT.

Now that that's out of the way...

I've never not been multi-fandom (and have a hard time grasping the concept of the mono-fan), but what LJ allows me to do, that lists and even newsgroups didn't, is discuss more than one topic in one place at one time, and get information/input/suggestions on any or all of the various things I want to discuss.

I go from Angel to Alias to SV to LotR in one post, and I can get answers to questions all in one place, without having to have my inbox flooded with mail from 18 different lists, or having to wade through the huge volume of posts on a newsgroup (even with filters in place).

It also allows me to pontificate often and at length about whatever I'm thinking about at the moment, which is a big step up over any other fannish form of communication this side of private email.

And LJ has allowed me to do is become friendly with people I have no fandoms or only one vague section of one fandom in common, or people who are in fandoms of shows I love(d) but was never involved in online. Sometimes it leads to me reading fic in fandoms I never thought I would, or to discussions of books or music we like in common.

I've met popslashers and Lotrips writers and anime fans and they're interesting and have cool things to say about writing and meta-fannish stuff that I would never have known about had I stayed on lists dedicated solely to Pairing X and Show Y.

LJ is also a great filtration system for learning which people to avoid, which people to stalk encourage, and which people who have great recs or who great links (whether fannish or non).

Plus, I feel like I get to know something about the person, what motivates her to write, why she isn't writing, and other more personal stuff. And that's interesting too. (Though I draw the line at cat stories. I refuse to read cat stories.) Some people have an amazing capacity to make their daily lives interesting, which is just another form of good writing.

First off, my LJ is ALL YOUR FAULT.
It sure is! Because she was the one who talked you into getting one.

Oh, wait. That was me.

And she was the one who gave you the code.

Actually, that was also me.

And she was the one who donated the remainder of her paid time to your username when she got a permanent account.

Hmmm. Nope. That was me, too.

Admit it. You belong to me.





Short answer: No, I don't think LJ has helped me become more multi-fandom. However, I know that I never would have gotten into SV if a Gundam Wing writer on my friends list hadn't had SV authors on hers. And the random fandom/friends list connect-the-dots that seems to go on makes it easier to sample things I would never otherwise try (OZ fanfic, for one). So while LJ has certainly broadened my horizons, I'm still pretty much a one fandom girl (having abandoned GW entirely). But take into account that I didn't start my LJ for fannish purposes. I started it 3 years ago as an actual journal, and then fandom seeped in when I wasn't looking.

*laughs* I like how you put that--seeped in.

But yes, I agree with everything you say as it relates to LJ and expansion.

LJ and fandom-y things

(Anonymous)
Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes? [snip] Or is it that multifandom/multipairing/more open people were already attracted to LJ for that very multifandom vibe?

LJ lurker here, also most definitely NOT a writer. Mostly post at TwoP and so have clicked on various LJ links from there. However, since lurking around Jenn's Toy-Box (sniffing out fic but also enjoying the meta) I started to read her friends list encouraged by the recognition of quite a few names from aforementioned TwoP-y things and from fics they had authored or beta-d.
Because of this lurkage though I have recently read some HP and LOTR stories.

I have to say no other pairing does it for me like the Clex but I have quite enjoyed some Harry/Draco and Harry/Snape stories on the emotional AND porno levels. IOW there are some beautifully written stories in that fandom (I don't read underage stuff though). With LOTR - I'm not so sure, I don't think I see the sub-text in the text to start with (no offence to anyone who does).

Still, I would only consider myself a part of the SV fandom, although that in turn means that I belong to a wider community of slash-fans I suppose. That is, reading the LJ's I do has given me a more definite sense of said community and of the kind of people I am in it with (so to speak). I like their 'voices' for the most part but still tend to identify with the SV stuff the most.

Thus the answer to the first part of your question (above) is: Somewhat.
The answer to the second AFAIAC is: LJ allows a reader to enjoy a more in-depth view of his/her favourite fandom/slash phenomenon (this is especially true of SV with so many 'TYO'-boards), along with the ability to sample more widely without committment. I would say that articulate, analytical (and horny) fans are likely to find that combination irresistible!
Starflower.


Re: LJ and fandom-y things

I wonder how many of us there actually exists who use Jenn's friendslist as a fandom "touchstone". Before I finally got my own LJ, I just happily used Jenn's list to keep up with (mainly) SV fandom. (I hope you don't mind Jenn. This makes me sound just a liiittle too creepy stalker gal...)

Having been a multifandom gal since I left the M7 fandom about 4 yrs ago and having had an LJ for nearly 2 yrs now (April is my 2 yr LJ anniversary), I have to say from my experience that I don't think I can answer your question.

I do know, however, that when I first got on LJ, as far as I could tell there wasn't a lot of fandom activity from what I saw but then about a year after I'd had LJ I started finding LJs of authors whose work I admire and as time went by I also found LJ of other fans (or people who had the same fannish interests I did) and its been interesting watching this..I wouldn't call it a migration..can't call it an explosion either..just noticed a lot more fans on LJ in the last six months or so.

*nod* Makes sense.

I really only noticed because it felt like EVERYONE I knew was suddenly possessed of an LJ and I was making shortcut links on my diary and noted, huh, I've added TEN this time? Very weird feeling to realize how much I'd been reading on a daily basis.

Thanks for commenting!

(Deleted comment)
I think I got accustomed to reading outside 'my' fandoms when I became a badfic tragic. We had threads at MBTV and Meta devoted to the stuff, and I'd go trawling some extremely weird-seeming categories at ff.net for the worst things I could find. Blue's Clues rapefic? Bible slash? Snape!regression? NASCAR RPS (I have big problems with that, sorry)? Anne Frank fic? Been there, scrubbed my brain out with the Wire Brush Of Doom.

I'm still recovering from the concept of Pac-Man and Minesweeper fic. Seriously. *shakes head* ff.net is WEIRD.

I may not know much about a particular fandom, but good writing is still good writing. I'm OK with missing some of the intricacies of the author's interaction with canon/fanon elements if the piece has some sort of inherent narratological integrity, which most of the good stuff in any fandom (or genre) does.

*nod* Yes and yes. I've read authors write in fandoms I didn't know existed, know nothing about, just for their ability to tell a story. Completely with you there.

*grins*

Thanks for commenting!

Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes?

That's a big old yes for me. If I wasn't on LJ I would probably never even be tempted to read fics that weren't about the shows I'm involved in. I might know that there were tons of other fandoms out there but I wouldn't have a clue where to start in them, if, for some reason, I was interested in reading other fic. The majority of people on my friends lists are Buffy or SV people but there is so much overlapping of fandoms today that I can't help but be exposed to things I would never have considered before. LOTR fic? Yeah, I saw the movie once and am not too interested in seeing it again, but so-and-so has recced some incredible SV stories and I trust their taste and they say this is a great LOTR story, so I read it. HP slash? Didn't see it in the books but hey -- this person writes great BtVS slash, I bet they could make HP work. Maybe I should check it out. Popslash? Initial reaction is ew but it obviously works for so many people so maybe I should have a more open mind about it. Actually check it out before I make a judgment. And all the popslash fans on my friends lists rave about so-and-so, so that would probably be a good place to start. And so on...I end up reading things that I never would have even considered before. I still haven't read any popslash but, at this point, I figure it's just a matter of time. I love trying new things and LJ never fails to deliver.

As far as my writing is concerned...I haven't been tempted to write in any other fandoms but whether I ever do or not, I can't help but believe that my own writing can only be improved by exposure to a greater number of quality authors, regardless of what they write about.

...I end up reading things that I never would have even considered before. I still haven't read any popslash but, at this point, I figure it's just a matter of time. I love trying new things and LJ never fails to deliver.

Hell yes!

*grins* I'm a HUGE fan of LJ recs. I'm lazy--they make my life ten times easier. Endless goodfic! Feast-time.

As far as my writing is concerned...I haven't been tempted to write in any other fandoms but whether I ever do or not, I can't help but believe that my own writing can only be improved by exposure to a greater number of quality authors, regardless of what they write about.

*nod* Good point. The huge variety of styles, types, and so forth do have an interesting effect on what or how someoen writes.

Mmm. Thanks for posting!

Two posts in two days woohoo!

Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes? Or just your writing? Or just your reading? Or is it that multifandom/multipairing/more open people were already attracted to LJ for that very multifandom vibe? Chicken or the egg, chicken or the egg, lalala.

Two posts in two days woohoo!

Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes? Or just your writing? Or just your reading? Or is it that multifandom/multipairing/more open people were already attracted to LJ for that very multifandom vibe? Chicken or the egg, chicken or the egg, lalala.
Sorry about that last post hit enter by mistake.

But to answer the question I was multifandom before LJ and still am K/S anyone. I only started reading LJ out of curiosity from a link on someones page and was hook by how interesting and open some ppl are about there daily lives the fiction is just a bonus. And yes I am more open in my reading because of LJ reading what authors I like are reading some times I like what is rec some times I don't but I do try reading story's in fandoms I my not ordinarily read.

Re: Two posts in two days woohoo!

*grins* Multifandom reading!

You know, honestly, everyone's answers are fascinating me. The reading aspect seems to be huge, as well as the personal. Huh. Did not completely expect the personal aspect to show up so much.

Thanks for commenting!

I don't write, and I don't really expect LJ to change that. I mostly read Buffy and The West Wing but, having shown up in a SV corner of LJ, I'm starting to read that, too.

I'm interested in fandom in general rather than particular fandoms, and LJ allows me to be a fan of fandom ;-) From reading around here, even those who are very active in individual fandoms seem to post as much on fandom in general as on particular shows - like this whole thread, in fact! I don't know whether there was as much cross-fandom conversation about fandom itself in the days before LJ, but I'd guess there wasn't.

I'd also guess that talking about fandom with people from other fandoms (argh! Getting bored of typing the word 'fandom' now ;-) will naturally lead to people investigating other areas (hah! avoided the F-word) they might not have done before, even if only in passing.

Not sure if that's helpful or not ;-)

Has LJ led you to be more multifandom/multipairing/more open in your writing and reading tastes?

Nope. LJ is definitely responsible for my latest fannish obsession, Popslash, but I'm still a single-fandom gal in that I've deserted my other fandoms. I still have friends on my list that discuss episodes, but I don't really read fanfic anymore in my shows of choice and just recently I made the decision to drop nearly everyone who is heavily involved in SV fandom from my friends list because I decided I enjoyed the show much more on its own than I did as part of a discussion community.

I've only started writing fanfic since joining LJ, but I'm not sure if I can say that LJ is responsible for that because I think it may just be that this was the first time I found a fandom that compelled me to write. I was always pretty content just being a reader before.

Unlike some of your other posters here, I use my LJ nearly exclusively for fannish things and I add people based on common fandom interests and pretty much avoid people who post a lot of stuff about their personal lives because I'm just not interested. I have a private mailing list I'm on where we talk about fannish and personal stuff and that's fulfilling for me on that friendship level. Anyone else I want to get to know better I will talk to on the phone or hang out with them in person.