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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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the top twelve characters i hate and why
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
I've been reading the wide variety of rants currently available for public consumption. It's like Christmas! But with less in the way of food.

What really got me thinking is the multi rants on misogyny in fandom. Which of course, got me thinking--mostly of a, okay, what? That kind of thing. I don't necessarily buy that hating female characters in slash is a sign of misogyny. At least, not as a constant answer. So I did the thing any logical person would do and listed my most hated characters, then sorted them out by reasons.



I'm going to be terribly blunt about this. I have horrible reasons for hating characters. I mean, beyond shallow. But a lot of times, it comes down to the character I like most, and my OTP. I can forgive Lex murder. I love him. It's easy. I can't forgive Jonathan saying something nasty about him. I hate Jonathan. It's that painfully simple

1.) Chloe Sullivan (Smallville) - yeah, yeah, yeah, spare me. I go through hot and cold wiht her on a regular basis--I just came in flush from another Chloe Deification story, in which Clark grovels and apologizes and she kindly forgives him and oh God, I'll breathe now. It's just so--ooh. I hate that. I most hate it when combined with Lana and/or Clark Humiliation and spotlighted sometimes with Lex Deification, in which I have been known to pray for my own death. Don't get me wrong, I get her good qualities. The show actually is the one place I'm in charity with her, and a lot of writers pull her off beautifully. It's just in some fics that I think of sporks, cause, man. No. Also, sometimes, she interferes with my OTP. That's the number one reason I really start disliking someone. Well, co-number one.

2.) Seven of Nine (Star Trek Voyager) - she took up too much screentime and every story ended up about her. Even those stories about my OTP. Grrr. That's it.

3.) Jean Grey (X-Men)- interferes with my OTP. That simple. I get around it a lot by the fact that canonically, nothing happens. At least, not much. Writing her helps. I tend to like her best when I'm writing her, which is a kind of therapy I recommend.

4.) Ethan Gold (Queer as Folk) - interfered with my OTP. Yes, I'm glad he turned out a canonical scumbag of sorts, but really, that had no bearing on my feelings for him. He could have been a god. I hate him. Hate hate hate. Die little bearded boy. Die. This will hold true for any love interests of the future, just so you know.

4.) Michael Novotny (Queer as Folk) - he's a hot and cold to me. As one of the two most abused characters in QaF to date (it makes me guilty to put him here, so many have punished him hugely for his fictional semi-crimes) I tend to either want him dead or just remove the poor guy from my line of sight so I don't see him massacred yet again by another fic. He just annoys me in general. He really doesn't threaten my OTP, so I downgraded him to mild dislike with occasional amusement at his antics.

5.) Lana Lang (Smallville) - One, she interferes with my OTP. Wait, didn't I say this was shallow? I did warn you. I hate that. Two, she takes up incredible amounts of screentime doing pointless things. Three, she's being worked into the mythology in a way that makes absolutely no sense. She's Seven of Nine all over again, shoehorned into *everything*. Fast forward is my friend in re-runs.

6.) Faith (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) - This gets caught up in my reasons that I started really disliking Angel. I think this actually may be a philosophical point with Joss on redemption, atonement, and eternal suffering. I get very, very bored with eternal atonement and suffering. You can really only proclaim your guilt and angst at the world so many times before I want to strangle you and put you out of my misery. Yes, you did bad things. I'm glad you want to share and want to do good things. Faith and Angel both needed to get over it. I mean, Willow got to get mostly over it, after all, so it's possible. They just kept their noble suffering up and waited for the second, third, and fourth shoe to drop, nobly. And their deep abiding determination to Right the Wrongs They've Done Without Believing They Could Ever Get Past It. They need *therapists*. I get bored fast. Find a new schtick. Please.

7.) Xander Harris (Buffy the Vampire Slayer) - Xander hit me wrong all at the beginning. I know that and acknowledge that. And I love Buffy like I love Lex and Brian, exclusively, so what hurts her I consider a Bad Thing. I hated Angel with her, loved Angel wiht her, hated Faith with her, okay, I hated Riley but that's because he didn't deserve her, and Riley was just such a non-entity I coudl ignore his existence, and I loved Spike with her. Right or wrong, Xander hurt Buffy, he pissed me off. No matter how justified, I never got past when he didn't tell her that Willow was getting Angel's soul back and while I've read the arguments ad nauseum, I'm never going to really get why it was better she found out the way she did, right before impaling the guy. I never really forgave how they treated her after she ran off after *killing the love of her life*, like it should have been something she got over in an hour or so. I was ever so pissy when Xander dumped Anya in one of the worst-timed breakups in history, and no matter how many times I watch that ep, it still makes no sense to me whatsoever. I really despise him getting on Buffy when she said she had to kill Anya and not acknowleding the double standard going on with his arguments. I don't like that he can't ever quite get beyond wanting Buffy to actually think about *her*. I like that he tries a lot of the time. He just fails to much.

8.-10.) Justin, Clark Kent, Logan (Queer as Folk, Smallville, X-Men) - this is kind of a different category of hate. They're the second half of my OTP. A lot of my fannish obsession focuses on a single character--Tom Paris in Voyager, Rogue in X-Men, Lex in Smallville, Buffy in BtVS, and Brian in QaF. A bond, if you will. Hurting them is Bad. I dislike those who do so. Even if it's the other half of my OTP. This does, however, not exclude me loving them deeply. It just means I get a lot of headaches working out their sometimes bizarre behavior to my own satisfaction so they deserve the other half of my OTP. That's about the sum of it. So. Special area for that.

11.-12.) Jonathan and Martha Kent (Smallville) - I have not and will not ever get over the level of hypocricy going on here. They are the Voices of AlMiles and therefore are disgustingly inconsistent plot movers and Speakers of Anvil-things. Even getting that, even *knowing* that, I don't like them, I will *never* like them, and I will never get over that. Not in their inconsistent, sometimes brutal, and just *strange* behavior toward Clark, or in their blind prejudice toward Lex. Jonathan gets top billing, but Martha's silent and supportive wife/housewife/mother routine is grating as shit. It started well before leaving Lex in Belle Reve, but pretty much at this point, they could not get in my good graces if they hosted the Clex wedding, okay? Just not happening.

That's--cleansing. I like Sundays. So relaxing.
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Lionel Luthor's not included in your Top 10 hate list? ::ponders::

He's supposed to be a bad guy, so he really doesn't count. I mean, I loathe his socks, but that's the expected reaction, you know? So I don't guilt myself on not liking him. That's his purpose.

*grins* Make sense?

Writing her helps. I tend to like her best when I'm writing her, which is a kind of therapy I recommend.

I've found that true for most characters I'm not particularly fond of. When I write them, I tend to start liking them and sometimes actually find myself loving them.

It did help with Lana, come to think, which is why I've been relatively kind to her in fanfiction. I can't say I love her yet, but I can--er. Enjoy her. Fictionally.

Interesting read. I agree with you about most of them.

It was intersting just to sit down and write out what I really felt about them, not try to justify it to myself. If it was as petty as, hey, he fucked with my OTP! Then that's where it went to.

Shame is sooo overrated. *g*

Jonathan and Martha are pretty much the top of my shit-list these days - I don't think they could raised a more fucked up being if they tried. "Be good, but don't be *too* good. You know when you are being too good if, god forbid, IT COSTS YOU ANYTHING LIKE YOUR PRECIOUS SECRET!!!!"

*spits nails*

Yeah. I'm pretty much with the unforgiving of those two...I'm almost starting to forgive Clark for much of his bad behavior in season 4, if only because I can see how getting out of that house alive with one normal emotional response would be difficult.

*growls*

See, I can go back, if I think, and say, okay, Clark is fucking up because his parents give the worst. Advice. Ever. Take the latest terror. You know, that totally puts his freaky speech in Bound in a lot of context. A weird kind of context, but there you are.

It's mindblowing.

I've started to talk about not just my OTPs but also my OTCs in various fandoms. Because sometimes, it's all about a certain character and their partner in the OTP is there to give them someone to love and be loved by. Which is one of my shallow spots. There are only a few fandoms on my list where I can't pick a OTC because I love both halves of my OTP pretty much equally (Due South, Fraser/RayK stands out in my mind on this).

But anyway, my point is that I've definitely found the OTC concept to be helpful for me/my discussions.

Ooh. OTC. Good call. It's--mostly true with most of my fandoms. I mean, I *can* write my OTC wiht someone else, I just usually don't like to, if that makes sense. But yes. That does clarify a lot.

I agreed with everyone, except Faith and Xander-- until I read your reasons and now I'm on board. grrr




*laughs* God. It's just. I tried with them. I did. And I've enjoyed fic they've starred in and enjoyed them. But it's always, always tehre in the back of my mind--you hurt Buffy! Baaad characters.

This is an interesting idea! And an interesting read. Of course I don't think I actually hate anyone...LOL.

*giggles* My hate is a mild one. It comes out in rants. I tend to avoid writing povs from characters I hate, simply because I know I'll never be fair to them.

Xander? Useless character and depressing most of the time. Good for comic relief during high school, afterwards? Pointless.

*sighs* He just--never clicked with me. Which was problematic, since he does click wiht pretty much every friend I have. Which makes life very, veyr interesting online sometimes.

I find myself agreeing a lot with you. Especially about the part where there is one character I love and want to see happy on a show - Lex on SV, Brian on QaF, Buffy and Angel on their shows and I hate every character who causes them pain. I am not so much about the OTP, even though most of the time I prefer a pairing. As long as my favorite is truly happy (and the other part of the pairing isn't boring me to death *cough* Riley) I am alright with splitting up a couple on a show. I only minded Ethan because the writing for this character was atrocious IMO, he was spouting of the most ridiculous pseudo-romantic bullsh*t, but I hated Justin for hurting and humiliating Brian, even though Brian had humiliated Justin quite often before. But I don't care about Justin and I do adore Brian, so Justin just looses out.
I never liked Chloe and I am more than tired about her feeling righteously embittered about Clark not being in love with her. What the f*ck is up with that? His feelings are his own and feeling rejected by someone is no reason to spy on them and sell information about them to Lionel Luthor, who is considered highly dangerous. The episode where Chloe gleefully used her ability to get everybody to spill their secrets to her and then she proceeded to publish those secrets in her pathetic little school paper without giving a thought to the consequences sealed my heavy dislike. I am glad that in one of my favorite SV stories "Somewhere I Have Never Traveled" Chloe is just as unlikable as she deserves to be without you demonizing her. I liked that very, very much! And Martha and Jonathan are written as just the selfish hypocrites in "Gladly Beyond" that they are IMO. Very enjoyable!

*laughs* Yes. OTC. that is totally it. You just--want him/her *happy*!


No matter how justified, I never got past when he didn't tell her that Willow was getting Angel's soul back and while I've read the arguments ad nauseum, I'm never going to really get why it was better she found out the way she did, right before impaling the guy. I never really forgave how they treated her after she ran off after *killing the love of her life*, like it should have been something she got over in an hour or so.

Love. You.

After this, Xander had his moments but I could never forget how he didn't tell her this very important fact.

I was ever so pissy when Xander dumped Anya in one of the worst-timed breakups in history, and no matter how many times I watch that ep, it still makes no sense to me whatsoever. I really despise him getting on Buffy when she said she had to kill Anya and not acknowleding the double standard going on with his arguments.

Oh and how he acted all righteous when she slept with Spike? Double, triple grrrr. He broke up with her on their wedding day. How fucking low was that? She could have slept with every demon in Sunnydale and he would still have no grounds to speak on.

Love. You.

After this, Xander had his moments but I could never forget how he didn't tell her this very important fact.


Yes. And *Yes*. Just. If I want to remember one of my seminal Buffy moments, it's the second she realized he was back and then she put a sword through him, and when she died. God. That hurt.

Oh and how he acted all righteous when she slept with Spike? Double, triple grrrr. He broke up with her on their wedding day. How fucking low was that? She could have slept with every demon in Sunnydale and he would still have no grounds to speak on.

I'm endlessly bewildered at his moral high ground stance pretty much for the entire show, but season six and season seven was just--I would stare at him and think but you dumped her on her wedding day. I mean--wow. But I still love her, he howls. And I stare at him and think you dumped her on her wedding day.

Just. What the *hell*?

(Deleted comment)
Yes. Well, it is therapeutic. I mean, I want to be all above the pettiness, and I realize I'm really not.

Combined with the fact that the fandom tends to Mary Sue her, writing fics where every single character and their newly-reformed father rhapsodizes on how fantastic she is...aieeeeee.

*grrr* Yes. And the thing is, I have liked how she's portrayed in a lot of fics. Just sometimes, yes, there's a saintification process going on. Not so much with the fun there.

I detested Xander. He was such a shitty friend.

And man, don't even get me started on the Kents. Could they be any more smug and self-righteous? Is it wrong for me to hope that Lex has them killed?

*grinds teeth*

No. I hope we can all watch their death throes. Grrr.

I have to agree with almost everything you've said. I may like Michael and Faith more so than you, but otherwise, I agree.

I like Chloe for the most part. Mainly, because she's not Lana. It irritates me that she makes Clark feel guilty for not loving her.

My fannish obsessions are one character centered also. I love Lex, Brian and Angel. I can read a Lex/Other story or Brain/Anyone, but I can't get into a story about Clark/?. I don't care if he's not with Lex. It doesn't have to be happy, but they must be involved in some way.

My first real OTP was Pacey/Joey. But I only cared about her as long as Pacey was happy.

I'm trying to remember if I've ever loved a couple equally, but nothings coming to me right now.

MMm. I watchd Dawson's Creek specifically for the Pacey/Joey. Then stopped when they broke up. *sad*

I'm not sure I've ever loved any couple equally. The closest was X-Men, maybe, because I adored Logan, but he could still piss me off with teh Jean-passion. Bah.

I actually agreed with everything you wrote. Sometimes it scares me how much in common I have with the people in the same fandoms. I mean I thought I was *unique* Lol

One name you didn't mention, and maybe you just never watched the show, which would be understandable since it was only around for three seasons and the second season was pretty atrocious-Roswell. Because then if you take into consideration that particular show I would have to say I hated Tess, and that was only because I actually had a hetero-OTPs in that show. And Tess was just horrible. Though I have to confess at the end of the series when she blew up the government airspace building- well she was okay in my book at that point, but did nothing to make me hate her less for what she did before. Now that I think about it Liz was kinda annoying too.

Sorry I just rambled in your comment section -.-;

I am a fan of rambling. Huge fan, even.

i watched a little Roswell. I did not like Tess. It was an instinctive sort of dislike, I think. jengrrrl got me hooked into Michael/Maria fast, but I did like Max/Liz from what I did see,just on the ohsocute factor. Shallow is me.

What were your het OTPs?

Hmmm, I've always seen Jonathon & Martha from SV as being 2 dimensional characters, with many flaws and facile utterings that are supposed to make it all seem allright. Bah! Everything seems to have a pat answer from them, a simplistic response that is kinda condescending and frankly, if my parents ever spoke to me like that, I'd be on drugs right now!

That's why I absolutely adore the Jonathon/Martha that Lanning Cook has written for her Identical series. More down to earth and realistic parents, and characters I believe in.

Ang

*nods* agreemnet on both counts.