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The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation


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balkinazation in qaf
children of dune - leto 1
seperis
The thing is, I've managed to be frustrated at three differnet topics in two differnet forums, and it's all mixed up in my head now.

Te did this blog entry--God, two years ago?--on the Balkinization of fandom, and please God, let me have spelled that correctly. If she were a nice Te, she'd move it to her LJ, because I seriously got a kick out of the logic.

Oh. Fannish whimpering. Yeah. Cutting now. The lack of organization and rambling is deliberate. No, really. *Really*.



I agreed at the time. A part of me still does. Two fandoms ago, I participated in a fandom split--actively encouraged, worked at, enjoyed, even. Complete with sockpuppets and flamefests, fic bashing, charcterization bashing, sekrit emails, private emails forwarded, private emails posted publicly, all the good stuff. We were a small fandom, but we made up for it in sheer levels of really frighteningly antisocial behavior. The split caused the deletion of our home list--yes, deletion, two years of history or close to it--and the rise of several competing lists in its place. Most failed. Ours didn't. Another one didn't. We wanted quality. They wanted shit and quantity. They got it. And it kept it off our list. To this day, I don't see the bad in that part. The aftershocks I could have lived without. Because in some ways, those haven't stopped.

Balkanize. I liked the term then and I like it now. The split when agreement's impossible and you get to that point where even seeing their name in an email makes you nauseous. Yes. *That*. Where you'll carry the grudge until the day you leave Fandom forever and ever and ever and take up productive work in a quilting circle, never to mention your fannish activities again. The people you'll be ranting about on your *deathbed*.

I mean, seriously, who doesn't get why I love LJ so damn much? It's like having a mailing list where you get to choose everyone who gets to post in it. Well, almost. But close enough. And I'm not saying the days of big mailing lists are dead or anything, though I don't see a time I'll be dragging myself back to participate in the near future. That's just me. I like the fact right now, I can pick and choose everyone I want to listen to and completely not be aware of anyone else. And it's so *easy*.

What's actually getting my undivided attention is the concept of pre-emptive balkinization, or the split in fandom before there's any actual meaingful interaction. Or, why QaF is making me want to spend quality time thinking, this is new and strange. Or maybe it isn't.

LJ is where I started in QaF--I don't know how active it was before I jumped in, because I haven't really studied it that much. All my early reading was off the archives--I have social-freaking-out issues with boards. I stayed in LJ because that's where I was comfortable and relatively secure and since at the time, I didn't know where the QaF people were LJ-wise, it felt vaguely safe to post here and not be noticed until I felt more comfortable with what I was doing. Then other QaFLJ people showed up and it was all squee-y and I forgot all about the boards and settled down to do what I've been doing for almost a year--squee and post and squee and post.

So. Though I can't be entirely deadly certain this is a fully accurate portrayal, we have two QaF fandoms in a way--the older one based off of messageboards and the newer one, LJ-specific. I also can't speak for how much crossover there is between the two--I know some LJers post on the messageboards and some have for a long time, and some board members have LJs now or did before and are participating in the LJ-culture of QaF.

My first response to anti-LJ backlash is to wonder, why do you care? And also, screw it. Just not publicly. Because while I'm rarely nice, I'm not actually out for blood every day of the week, either, and I come from a fine tradition of passive-aggressive private griping. It works for me. Screw the entire Be Upfront About Your Dislikes thing. I'm not. I don't. I won't very often. Except now.

I hate the concept of entitlement--I've ranted on this before and I will again. I hate Great Fannish Pronoucements About How Things Should Be, because they make me contrary, even when I totally agree, which is just sick and sad. I hate being told what I should be writing, because then I think how great it would be if Stockwell fucked Brian and nag soundczech about it until she finally smothers me virtually in my sleep. I really, really hate the idea that if I rec in my LJ or on my webpage, that's some kind of offense to the author if I don't email them as well. I also hate nutella, but so far, few have jumped on my Nutella Will End Civilization bandwagon. Bastards.

Right, where was I?

I was venting out. Just ignore me until I stop feeling insecur-ized. Instead, I'll compose odes to why Brian/Stockwell should be my new OTP.


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Yes! An anti-Nutella campaign! I'll make the icons, you create the community LJ...*g*

*hugs you!*

*falls at feet* I thought I was alone in the world!

*looks suspiciously at nutella lovers*

on the Balkinization of fandom, and please God, let me have spelled that correctly

It's actually "Balkanization" with an "a" like you spelled it further below, and what's wrong with Nutella? I'll grant you that there are better brands of chocolate-hazelnut-spreads, but the underlying taste combination is sound. What I think will end civilization is jelly-flavored peanut butter. That is an atrocity only spray-can cheese matches... (okay so I got never quite over my culture shock of seeing an US supermarket from the inside *g*)

*stops breathing*

There's--more than one kind? Of--of that?

With you on the jelly flavored peanut butter. THE STREAMS SHOULD NOT CROSS. Until they join together in a sandwich.

*worried* Are we going to have cans of peanut butter sandwich flavors soon?

I'm ambivalent on spray cheese. The concept worries me.

(Deleted comment)
*takes a step back, slowly*

God, I remember that initial Balkanization...I've seen something worse since (worse because I was *way* more invovled, even though I was still on the outside edges of it all) but mostly because it centered around personal issues, friendships and backstabbing than of the purely fannish variety.

Anyway, hell yes, there needs to be an anti-Nutella bandwagon. I don't care if it does have umlauts (it does, right? it's been so long since I could actually look at a jar), the jar's roughly the same shape as a can of SPAM, and that never bodes well for any food product.

And as for this pick-and-choose thing with LJ, I'm right there with you. I think it's one reason why I regard my post-SV experiences so well in comparitive terms. I'm able to pick and choose associations, even more than I did while in SV, so for the most part EW, HP, popslash and lotrips are these shiny, happy lands. With lots and lots of squees and gay porn -- but hey, that's how life should be, right? *g*

the jar's roughly the same shape as a can of SPAM, and that never bodes well for any food product.

That is total definitive proof of its evil. Total.

And as for this pick-and-choose thing with LJ, I'm right there with you. I think it's one reason why I regard my post-SV experiences so well in comparitive terms. I'm able to pick and choose associations, even more than I did while in SV, so for the most part EW, HP, popslash and lotrips are these shiny, happy lands. With lots and lots of squees and gay porn -- but hey, that's how life should be, right? *g*

If fans were sane, yes. Which we mostly are, I think. Except when we're totally not.

*grins*

LoTRips sucked you in, huh?

I made the mistake of debating the LJ thing. I start well and then get scared and backpedal.Plus, they're all kind of steamroller-y.

I'm quite happy to be two separate nations, but I want them to know they're stupid.

I hate Nutella too. And vegemite.

The words "General Custer" came to mind. *hugs* You were fine, sweets.

I'm quite happy to be two separate nations, but I want them to know they're stupid.

*giggles* Emotional health requires honesty in how you feel, *I* think.

I hate Nutella too. And vegemite.

Vegemite just scares me. Badly.

Hi. I can't remember if I've ever actually posted on you lj before but I've lurked forever. =)

History of QAF fandom:
As far as I remember QAF started off balkanized. It was the Showtime "kiddies" vs. the TWoP "mature snarkers" in the beginning with some mixing. The TWoP forum shut down completely after the show was put on permanent hiatus because the moderators couldn't stand all the bitching and fighting going on and the "non-bitchy" people migrated to the QAF Refugee board and some already established Yahoo!Groups.
QAF in lj developed recently as far as I can tell. Some lj people started watching QAF recently and a couple of old board people have moved into lj. I'm sure there were fans in lj already but not many wrote fic as far as I can tell.
So there is kind of the great divide between the old board/yahoo!group QAF people and the new lj QAF people with some crossover.

I've been lurking around the QAF fandom since the middle of Season 1 and around lj since Season 1 of Smallville. QAF was my first fandom and it used to be full of attitudes, bitching, major wanking, and everything else you could think of. It wasn't all bad, of course. The move to the Refugee board was nice because a lot of the bad stuff got left behind.

---------
Nutella: I never eat it at home (in the US) and I didn't even eat it in Europe. I had another hazel nut spread and while skeptical at first it went well with my croissants.

Peanut Butter/Jelly: Obviously they are and should always be two different things. Anything else = scary.

Brian/Stockwell OTP: Um, yeah...You're scary, really scary.

*waves* Welcome to posting in my LJ! *does more waving*

Thank you for the history bit. I'd been meaning to actually look up the history, but then I'd get distracted by nakedness and prettiness and there goes intellectual curiosity.

Brian/Stockwell OTP: Um, yeah...You're scary, really scary.

*smiles sweetly* I keep thinking I should be dared to do it. Just to see if I *could*. Or soundczech. Either/or.

I Remember Back in Aught One...

I hopped on the QAF Fandom bandwagon the summer after Season 1. Before that I was heavy into The Sentinel.

The TS fandom, while prone to bizarre flare ups about utterly inconsequential things, was fairly gentile compared to QAF.

To start with, you have the whole Brian/Justin; Brian/Michael contingents, so it seemed like the fandom started with this whole "Tastes Great! / Less Filling!" debate already Balkanizing fans.

It seemed to me that the board/mailing list fans for QAF were less... well, pardon me, but less erudite; less well read and much less well spoken, certainly, than I'd gotten used to in TS. Perhaps the TS fandom was more scholarly or something--perhaps it had more students or educators or something, I don't know. But along with poorly written comments about the show and of course poorly written fiction, you also got a crowd of people in the QAF fandom who couldn't stand to have their opinions countered in any way, shape or form. The shrill, unreasonable, closed-minded tone of the boards and mailing lists really made for an uninviting atmosphere to actively post in and later to even lurk in.

I found LiveJournal through a fic rec somewhere, and I *loved* the fact that I had to scroll through journal entries to find more fic. It turned me on to such interesting, funny, intelligent, amusing writers!

I hate the concept of entitlement

Oh my God, I'd ask for my brain back, but you're doing much more with it that I ever seem to! I so think ENTITLEMENT is to blame for all of the ills in society these days. But that's a rant for another day, I suppose...

I have no opinion about Nutella.

I double-dog dare you!

I do have the nascent vid of Brian/Stockwell homicidal love, of course, so I'm biased.

Oh, and anything that combines hazelnuts and chocolate is, imo, of the very good. Nutella 4 Eva!

Re: I double-dog dare you!

*narrows eyes* If it were left up to you, you'd rub them in nutella first, wouldn't you?

I'm thinking vaguely psuedo-parental thoughts, thanks to soundczech. It's all wrong and dirty, in a bad way that's kind of fun.

Yep, insanity around the corner.

*humming insanely*

I always knew you were insane, but this vendetta against nutella proves it.

I'm so making icons. I am *so* doing it.

*jumps on the Nutella Will End Civilization bandwagon*

Not that I think it will, but if I'm going to rant about something, let's make it something worthwhile. *g*

Meanwhile, I'm a happy little LJ fan. I don't like mailing lists in general (ie. avoid them like the *plague*) and I haven't been into posting on boards since my brief TWOP phase a couple years ago. LJ lets me control the number of people I read daily, it lets me play with the big boys (the Cool Kids of Fandom, if you will) without having to devote all of my time to fannish pursuits...

It's like a cheating way of enjoying fandom. You get what you want, who you want, and as much of it as I want. It also allows me to bitch about personal stuff and spam if I want to, and to get a closer view of my fellow fans (complete with their great senses of humour). Plus, it's multifandom as all get-out. I may only share a passing interest with some of my FList in some fandoms (Hornblower, Farscape, etc, shows I love but don't have the time/energy/inclination to be totally devoted to) and I get to follow and see what the really interesting people are being interested by.

Man, this makes me sound like such a celebrity stalker. I'm really not. I just love the way that LJ allows you to carve out this little niche of fandom space for yourself. It rocks.

It's like a cheating way of enjoying fandom. You get what you want, who you want, and as much of it as I want. It also allows me to bitch about personal stuff and spam if I want to, and to get a closer view of my fellow fans (complete with their great senses of humour). Plus, it's multifandom as all get-out. I may only share a passing interest with some of my FList in some fandoms (Hornblower, Farscape, etc, shows I love but don't have the time/energy/inclination to be totally devoted to) and I get to follow and see what the really interesting people are being interested by.

LJ ate my first response, which was sort of like this.

Wow. That's exactly it. Exactly. And more concise than I could possibly have managed. Right there.

*loves you*

I entered QaF fandom through TWoP (not the world best idea) and left when the board was taken down, which it really should have been long before it was. I came back when people who were already on my FL started getting into it and it's been pretty fun.

The way I figure, a wank like this is nothing to even a single day at the TWoP QaF boards. It's been over a year since then and there's still and I'm still bitter about the whole thing. Out of all of fandom that I've participated in the only person that I really loathe came from that.

*hugs* I'm so sorry. That just sucks.

I vaguely followed the SV fanfiction TWoP boards and got really disillusioned very fast there. Possibly expalins my current issues with boards. Unreasonable, but there.

O_O

*is shocked*

How can you not like Nutella? It is all chocolaty and hazelnutty and yummy and creamy and smooth and fantastic on bread and with coffee and and and... *breathes*

You know I always thought that the QAF fandom was really peaceful, no drama, no snark, nothing. But yes, apparently I've been living under a rock and it is actually a extremely soap opera-esque fandom. *sighs* I have never understoody fandom politics, no matter which fandom I'm in.

Er... by understoody I meant understood.

And squee! I LOVE your icon!!!111!!!

< end plebe moment >

Balkanize. I liked the term then and I like it now. The split when agreement's impossible and you get to that point where even seeing their name in an email makes you nauseous. Yes. *That*. Where you'll carry the grudge until the day you leave Fandom forever and ever and ever and take up productive work in a quilting circle, never to mention your fannish activities again. The people you'll be ranting about on your *deathbed*.

*loves* this forever. :) If a bit chagrined over it all, since I know that I, too, am probably going to wind up wheezing out the names of my fandom grudges with my death rattle. But... nice to know I'll be mentioned, too. *giggles*

I'm new to the LJ community, so excuse if this question is out of place. Does this balkanize have anything to do with '.. proud to be Austrian' written on your icon?
Anita
Nutella - was addicted - now I'm over it.

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