The Toybox

people for the conservation of limited amounts of indignation

Previous Entry Share Next Entry
like you need low blood pressure
children of dune - leto 1
In case this hasn't been brought to anyone's attention:


The Steubenville Rape Case Getting National Attention

Rape Case Unfolds on Web and Splits City

The Rape Video May Mean The Perpetrators Don't Get a Fair Trial, Since It Shows Them Raping, I Suppose, And That's Not Fair or Something

High school sports star caught on camera LAUGHING as football team players 'raped and urinated on girl, 16, during house party' which includes an interesting note that the video--the one that could totally blow that entire 'fair trial' because it shows it happening was brought to light by the hacker group KnightSec, which is loosely associated with Anonymous.

The Steubenville Files on LocalLeaks - that's not all they uncovered. That is a lot of covering up.

But why, you ask? This is America and what on earth could possibly be more important than bringing gang-raping to justice? I mean, other than everything; this is a woman, after all, so as a former governor of Texas, the ever classy Clayton Williams once stated, rape is like weather, "If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it".

Right, also this:

Nate Hubbard, 27, was one of them, telling The New York Times last month: 'The rape was just an excuse, I think. What else are you going to tell your parents when you come home drunk like that and after a night like that?

'She had to make up something. Now people are trying to blow up our football program because of it.'

Fuck knows, high school football is totally that important.

ETA: LJ side of this post has a highly triggering comment that includes rape denial and victim blaming. User is now banned, but it's unscreened because hell if I'm covering up that kind of attitude. It's the second comment in that post.

Posted at Dreamwidth: | You can reply here or there. | comment count unavailable comments

  • 1

Wow. That is absolutely disgusting. And with evidence that damning, the only reason they even need a trial is to determine the sentence. Cuz they are 100% guilty. And can you imagine being that girl, knowing that everyone's watching you get raped? JFC, what a nightmare.

Honestly, no. I mean, I lock up my head just trying to imagine twelve minute video of it. It's utterly insane.

It sounds like she got drunker than shit and everyone else was drinking too, and everyone was going to party to party, getting drunker and drunker. Was she raped? Actually, I don't think so. Did they take nude photos of her, and put their fingers up her? Definitely. That is a violation, but photos and fingering aren't the same as full out rape. Not even. These are stupid, drunk kids who did embarrassing things that were photographed and twittered about. That blogger didn't do the girl any favors. A small time thing she could have walked away from. Blown up internationally, this will follow her for ever.
(Frozen) (Thread)

Yeah, no, this comment is now screened.

Second thought: no. Banning works for me.

Edited at 2013-01-05 08:45 am (UTC)
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Also, banned as of now.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

According to accounts, she was drugged, passed out the entire time and dumped on her parents lawn in the morning.

There's a video that goes on for 12 minutes where one of the guys go on and on and on about her being raped.

It's not the blogger who didn't do this girl any favors. The rape was going to follow her regardless. At least she might get some measure of...justice or something, knowing that these guys are getting decimated.

I don't even know why I'm responding to your comment because it's not even my journal and the best case scenario here is that you're trying to bait someone to entertain yourself. That's literally what I am hoping for here.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

How about any any time you touch someone in an intimate way and they cannot possibly give consent? Is at the very least SEXUAL VIOLATION. Which I'm just going to go ahead an call rape. In fact, let's make rape a binary system. You cannot be a little violated or a little raped. Either you were or you weren't. If someone inserts something into me, be it my mouth or my nose or my ear, without my permission it IS a violation, if we're talking about orafices like a VAGINA you're really going to make an argument it wasn't rape?

There was unconsenting nudity and distribution of said nudity, that's assault of numerous values. There was nonconsentual PENETRATION with a sex organ. (In this case the vagina was the sex organ, but if it was a penis in a mouth, that's still penetration with a sex organ) How is that NOT RAPE?

How about I don't put GHB into your drink? Just something that gives you massive and dehydrating dyarea? It's not assault, I mean I didn't physically touch you and the drug I gave you didn't remove your ability to give consent. Never mind that I just screwed with your body without permission or that I could have hospitalized you for any number of reasons. It doesn't fit into a narrow minded, tightly defined, asinine definition of assault. So It wasn't. *eyerolls*

You're not going to be allowed to reply to this, but please for the love of god, think about what you actually said.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

OMFG! This comment here. This fucking blogger bitch, ruining this girl's life. Not drunk assholes who actually humiliated and used and most likely raped her (because I doubt they took her to bed to sleep after putting fucking fingers in her in front of everybody), but blogger. And don't forget, she also ruined the football season. Damn, those poor football players, suffering so much.
It's insane. It's absolutely insane.

I don't know American law on this, but the penetration with fingers would also count as rape in Sweden (it's any penetration).

And yeah, insane. Infuriating, to say the least.

fuck I know... if it was up to me I'd make the team forfeit the entire season and attend all sorts of intrusive and deeply embarrassing classes; failure to pass which would mean, no more football, period. as for the blogger she deserves a medal for derailing this fucking disgusting coverup.

now what I'd really like to see is these precious young athletic stars convicted of their crimes and made to do some hard time for a while. they like rapists in the joint; in fact, they like them a LOT. I'd call that fair. mind you I am not by any means a civilized person. but fuck man, who fucking *does* shit like this?

where do they keep *finding* these assholes... it's like the Penn State thing all over again, people blaming the victim instead of the perp. makes ya wanna puke.

There was a really similar case in Sweden, in a town called Bjästa. Less social media documentation of the actual rape, but there was massive online support and bullying in favor of the defendant, and the whole town ostracized the victim. It was awful. He was convicted eventually, but he managed to rape another girl and the town still didn't stop supporting him.

I had never heard of this case before, thank you for bringing it up. The best account I can find in English doesn't give any sociological background. Can you?

Specifically, in the US you will find (as at Steubenville) that rally-round-the-rapist often involves a local team sports star. Was anything like that involved in Bjästa? Did the rapist have an elevated social position for some other reason -- influential/rich parents, for instance? Is the region known for social conservatism?

Thanks for anything you can tell me.

(Suspicious comment)
a very small, tight-knit community

Yes, apparently it's only about 2000 people, maybe 5400 when you throw in the rural areas around it.

the people who first figured it out were part of an internetforum normally known for its racist/sexist/internet troll atmosphere.

Now *that* is surprising. I wonder if there's any connection (directly or efriends-of-efriends) between that group and Anonymous? It is really startling, frankly, to see groups traditionally dominated by foul-mouthed males being so unequivocally anti-rape -- victim-blaming is more what I've come to expect. Is there some sort of sea change taking place in male internet culture, or is it a single group of people? Who are maybe not straight men, for once?

What is the name of the internet forum, do you know?

Yes, exactly. Very, very small, even by Swedish standards. Everyone knows everyone. The priest invited the rapist to the graduation ceremony despite the restraining order that was in effect.

The forum is called, which is enormous and usually the Swedish center for racists and rape apologists, and I have no idea what made this particular thread develop differently. I read a little bit of it but back-buttoned out because I can't actually read that kind of discussion about rape--it starts out being very traditionally victim-blamey, but goes forward and then at the end there's a vote and something like 87.5% think he's guilty, after they've gone over the evidence. There are about 800 posts in the thread and this thread was actually nominated for an investigative journalism award in Sweden.

It takes a lot of deep inhaling and exhaling for me to read this and not immediately want someone to put these guys down. Hard.

I've been following this for weeks, and it's been so triggering/upsetting that I've had nightmares about it. What has outraged me second only to the rape itself has been the Gordian Knot of relationships involved in the coverup--those in authority in law enforcement, the school itself, the civil side of the government. I've always had a basic distrust of "the law," having been the child of a deputy sheriff and having seen first-hand and understood (in retrospect) the unmitigated power that "the law" has in a small town.

I understand peer pressure. I understand teenage rebellion and one-upmanship. I even understand the (LOATHED) idea of high school sports tying a town together socially. What I don't understand is that anyone could dismiss a child's life as cavalierly as those creatures dismissed hers--and all because she broke up with one of them! And now we have the scramble to use the existing law of the land--the law they broke violently and without a second thought--to wrap around themselves like a blanket.

I've had personal experience with this sort of thing, and I've been just *shaking* for weeks. The sheriff, the coach, the DA, the teachers--all of them--should be ridden out on a rail and the sports programs disbanded. And I haven't even started on the Orwellian notion that, just because it's on tape and witnessed, trying it in court can't be "fair." WTF. Just. Seriously. WHAT THE FUCK.

I just can't deal with the victim blaming and the rape culture in America. How does anyone think this is okay? Even if the girl had gotten pass out drunk on her own, what those guys did to her is absolutely disgusting and they should be prosecuted. I can't believe there are people who treat it as if, "well, she was passed out so of course she got violated" - as if that's perfectly normal. Okay, sure if your friend passes out at a party and you want to give them a funny cup hat or draw on their face with eyeliner I mean, that's rude, but kind of ha ha funny - it's not the same as sexually violating someone, recording it, and acting like they were asking for it because they couldn't say no. I can't believe people are treating it the same way.

I hate people and all the world does is remind me why.

The problem is that there ARE 'you are a dumbass' provisos in some laws. Like, if you leave your door open in a neighborhood known to have home invasions/burglary the courts are going to take that into account and that there are no laws that make a line about when personal responsibility stops affecting anything that happens to you or even laws that say even if you were a dumbass, there are never going to be mitigating circumstances for crimes X, Y and Z. And it is a very murky place because personal responsibility aside, we're human beings and we can and do ignore our baser instincts, we don't eat all the food we see and attack all the things that threaten us and take all the things we want because WE ARE rational human beings.

In other words, I'm not hugely comfortable with the personal responsibility attachments to some judiciary rulings, but I'm also a huge fan of the darwin awards, so, you know, what can I say?

Well, yes, I'm also a huge fan of Darwin awards, and if you leave your cars and house unlocked in a sketchy area and you get robbed, yes, that is largely the homeowner's fault. At the same time, when that stuff does happen, I think most people will blame both the guy who left his doors unlocked and the guy that decided to walk in and steal all the things - and the guy who stole things will get some jail time. I feel like what happens in the case of rape is that the woman always gets blamed for not being careful enough or not being conscious enough to say no (inability to say no is not the same thing as saying yes, wtf court systems) and then the men that do it suffer very little to no consequences. In this case, taking it so far as using "but the football team!!" as a defense.

Laws can be complicated, but it's just infuriating that rape is still one of those "grey areas" in the law. Okay, yes, I understand that it could be easy for someone to accuse anyone else of rape (false accusations happen, of course), but... how is it that a girl has to prove that she was raped if there is video evidence of her unconscious and being violated while people stand around and make jokes about it? Also, how is it that no one said anything to stop it? It's an obvious failure in our legal system and clear indication that our society's moral code is broken. Ugh. Really, I just can't with this anymore. :\

I don't disagree with you, but I think this is where some of the illogical thinking stems from? The idea that you can blame the victim for lack of personal responsibility comes from a place where it DOES happen in certain laws/circumstances. I think this is the root of some of the Bad Thinking. I just think that there are crimes where you have to say damn the personal responsibility, you're a thinking, rational, adult and you really need the other person to create a metaphor of DO NOT WANT? You know what I mean?

Yeah, I know what you mean. In regards to this case specifically, though, it's just... insane is the only word I can think of. All the evidence in this case points to several boys being guilty of drugging, kidnapping, and sexually assaulting this girl, but because of the small town they live in and who their parents are, it was covered-up. So this case isn't even just the usual bad thinking and victim blaming, but full on criminal activities that were being ignored. I had to stop reading the LocalLeaks stuff because I was getting so mad!

exactly. rape, child molestation, torture -- these should be crimes regardless. if the victim was careless counsel them about it if there is a danger of recurrnce -- but go after the fuckin' perps first, dammit! this ain't rocket science, yanno?

every time I think about this story I get more pissed off. I live in a real small town and yeah, sometimes that is what happens -- but that's no excuse. twenty years ago a high-school basketball coach, married wi' kids an' all, got one of the cheerleaders pregnant -- and it was all made to unhappen. hell it was a decade later before word finally got out and the rest of us heard about it. ffffuuuuck. what is this, I don't even.

(Deleted comment)
Victim blaming/shaming isn't unavoidable. Just don't do it.

I had this whole argument in my head, but it seriously boils down to: just don't blame or shame the victim.

Also the 'how pitiable we find the victim' is pretty messed up.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Victim blaming is unavoidable to a certain extent.

I found it pretty easy. I just don't do it. Do you find that hard?
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
(Deleted comment)
I'm not going to look at this page anymore because I think that we've come to an impasse. If you want to be willfully ignorant then that's your call.

I let you get away with victim blaming this long because I get your argument in the end is about your need to believe in the myth of personal safety and it gets you through the day, and God knows very little does when you're aware that the only reason you are actually safe is because of luck. I get that attitude, trust me. I go outside without a male guard to protect me, so admittedly, my sense of personal responsibility for my safety is low, but hear me out.

A woman's body is not a possession, and that's where you fuck up. It isn't an ipod, a car, a radio, and rape is not property damage. It's not stealing, it's not robbery, a vagina is not stolen when someone is raped, and a woman is not sufficiently guarding her property and therefore rape is the natural consequence is revolting. The idea you are trying to get across is perfectly understandable as evaluating risk for yourself, but it is obscene when you apply what you consider too risky to other women and judge them by an arbitrary set of personal beliefs.

She isn't willfully ignorant--what you are saying is what is argued in rape trials against women and gets rapists off, and you know that perfectly well. That is the essence of the short skirt defense, that the burden is on the woman at all times to avoid risky behavior instead of hte burden on the men not to claim that there consent is a default state using a set of factors such as skirt length, sexiness, in the wrong place, on a date, marriage, and alcohol consumption.

I find your attitude in all ways repulsive, but your reply here calling her ignorant for believing that a woman who does not see her body as a possession that it is her job to deny otherwise it will be used against her will is beyond my personal line of acceptable behavior. Please do not post here again or you will be banned.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Actually it is exactly what rape culture means. When I live my life, I should not be expecting any man to be a potential rapist. Because rape? Should not be something acceptably on a man's mind. Or in any one's mind.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

This is absolutely a moral judgment.

You are judging someone for being raped.

You are saying someone is responsible for being raped.

I don't know why it is so important to you that this point is made, this distinction between legal and personal responsibility. The rapists were personally responsible for raping the girl. She didn't rape herself.

Unless that's the end argument you're trying to make.

Which, given everything you've already said, seems to be the case.

Which is ABSOLUTELY a moral judgment.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

No woman is responsible for her own sexual violation.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Blaming the victim is unacceptable. It isn't really directed at the victim, though. It's because you're scared, and trying to wish your fear away. "It won't happen to me (my sister/daughter/wife/mother, brother/son/husband/father) because I am careful. I know I can trust the people I drink around. I don't go on dark streets. I wear modest clothing. I live my life controlled by fear of the people who want to tell women how to behave and use rape as a tool to keep us terrified and hiding in our kitchens."

My mother was raped at the age of sixteen by a guy who came in through her bedroom window. My sister was raped by a man whom she had been on a few dates with, when he asked her to help him pack before a move. A coworker was gang-raped at a party by other teens of a higher social status, and the police laughed when she tried to report it, bleeding from the violence of the attack, saying since the boys were so much better off than her that she must have wanted it. (Yes, this was the USA, just about a decade ago). Immigrant girls get raped when they go to meetings with the INS, because if they complain, they'll just get deported, and then there is no case for the police to investigate. Boyfriends ignore their girlfriends' refusal of certain sex acts: yes, anal intercourse you didn't consent to is still rape, even if you did consent to vaginal intercourse.

Your body is yours. Maybe it is the only possession in the universe that no one can deny belongs exclusively to you. You don't have to be conscious for your body to belong to you. You don't have to be clothed for your body to belong to you. You don't have to be rich, or a citizen, or the right religion, or a virgin for your body to belong to you. It is yours. If you are a prostitute, and sell sex, you can still say no, sorry, you don't get to buy. If you are a prisoner, and a guard or another prisoner rapes you, it isn't funny, it isn't just something you should have to expect.

The one thing that the entire world should agree on; the one moral certainty that every religion, philosophy, and legal system should insist on, is that your body belongs to you. Only you can decide with whom you are willing to share it.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

This thread is now frozen, as the OP has officially reached my tolerance for parroting ignorance on the nature of rape culture.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

In the UK (where I am), there is a requirement of active consent. In other words, the person has to be sober enough (and intoxication is specifically mentioned as preventing consent) to say yes.

Also, any penetration is rape as mentioned is the case in Sweden.

Of course, proving rape cases is as hard as in most areas and we are currently having a massive countrywide convulsion in regard to sexual assaults in the 60s/70s by what at times seems to be half the UK TV stars/radio DJs who were famous at the time so it can be seen that there are still a lot of advances to be made.


tnx for the link round up. all so horrifying.

I'm not sure how I feel that fucking Anonymous has a better sensitivity threshold than people in my LJ. For your comments above, thank you so much. I keep not being able to believe what I'm reading. It's 2013, somehow, I thought at least here, we were making an attempt to fight rape culture.

Half the time, I'm honestly baffled by the people who think it's okay to write the things that they write in your LJ, or anywhere, really. That it's okay to think it. The other half of the time I'm convinced they're punking you or something because, what, those words are so horrifying they've come out the other side to hilarious. Except they're not funny and I'm not laughing. It's just the only sane explanation. So either they have horrible senses of humor or they're actually crazy.

I don't know if rape culture will ever go the way of the dinosaur, but I know that posts like this allow the possibility, because they make people confront the fact that they're not being funny, that they're maybe insane, for thinking/saying/acting as if anyone other than the rapist(s) is culpable for the act of rape.

I honestly have no idea what happened. I froze the thread above, and I apologize, but I don't actually have triggers and yet was starting to get very freaked out by my inbox, which can't be a good sign.


I totally fucking empathize because, JESUS.

I hope your inbox goes back to being safe. Your last comment before the freeze was exactly what needed to be said. I hope it actually gets read by the person who really, really needs to read it.

(Deleted comment)
You were amazing, thank you. It was possibly the only way I kept sane while reading was by reading your responses.

  • 1

Log in